X-GM-THRID: 1228990383629158992 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.199.16 with SMTP id w16cs7275qbf; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 05:39:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.66.252.4 with SMTP id z4mr582575ugh.1172151590888; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 05:39:50 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id q1si649553uge.2007.02.22.05.39.50; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 05:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1HKE8E-0004Or-DX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:37:10 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1HKE8D-0004Oi-P3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:37:09 +0000 Received: from pythagoras.zen.co.uk ([212.23.3.140]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HKE8D-0007dO-Lf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:37:09 +0000 Received: from [82.68.18.174] (helo=acer5gi5q0ubzj) by pythagoras.zen.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HKE7y-0003Ta-Mc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:36:55 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:36:43 -0000 Message-ID: <000801c75686$80b09110$0c01a8c0@acer5gi5q0ubzj> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000301c75684$5758d5e0$0c01a8c0@acer5gi5q0ubzj> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Originating-Pythagoras-IP: [82.68.18.174] Subject: RE: LF: Special Research Permits (501-504kHz) for UK Amateurs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2526 I should have added that it might be reasonable to add a separate sheet = with the issue about field-strength, assumptions and how you arrived at the figure in the RFI assessment box 73 John, G3WKL -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of John W Gould Sent: 22 February 2007 13:21 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Special Research Permits (501-504kHz) for UK Amateurs Jim, thanks for raising this issue. =20 The SRP is a generic form that often is related to "experiments" with = people asking for permission to run high power (for EME, MS, HF, etc), where = the field-strength would be more meaningful. I will probably be vetting = the applications obo RSGB, so I suggest that one keeps it short and simple; mention where applicable that the neighbour(s) are in the near zone and summarise the calculations. It might be worth stating that this would = be an absolute maximum figure as you may experiment with erp less that the = -10dBW maximum stipulated. 73 John, G3WKL -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of james moritz Sent: 22 February 2007 12:18 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Special Research Permits (501-504kHz) for UK Amateurs Dear Dave, LF Group, I don't believe it is possible to give an accurate value for field = strength at points close to the antenna - it will depend on too many variable factors, such as the position, geometry, conductivity and dielectric properties of all nearby objects. One can come up with a reasonable sort = of "worst-case" figure, however; this is my attempt: -Assume a long-wire antenna with an effective height of 8m. With lambda = =3D 596m, radiation resistance Rrad will be 0.285ohms.=20 -To achieve 0.1W ERP, Iant =3D sqrt(Perp/1.8xRrad) =3D 0.44A (I am assuming directional gain of 2.6dB, i.e. 1.8 for a short vertical antenna over a dipole) -The antenna voltage depends on the current and the impedance of the antenna. Most of the impedance is due to the capacitive reactance of the antenna. The measured antenna capacitance is about 340pF, giving a = reactance of 931ohms at 503kHz. Therefore the antenna voltage will be about 411V. (Also, the loss resistance of this antenna at 500kHz is around 20ohms; = the TX power required to obtain 0.44A therefore works out to be about 4W) -If as a worst case we assume the antenna and ground acts as a sort of parallel plate capacitor with the physical height of 9m being the = spacing between the two plates, the E field strength will be about 46V/m under = the antenna.=20 In reality, the field gradient will be higher close to the antenna wire = than it is at ground level, so the field strength will be lower than this at ground level. Also, at positions not directly under the antenna the = field will be further reduced, and trees, buildings, bushes, cats etc. in the vicinity will have a partial screening effect that will also reduce the field strength. So I think 46V/m is a very conservative maximum figure = for this antenna. A bigger antenna will have lower reactance, require less current due to higher Rrad, and be further away from potential = "victims", so would result in lower FS. The converse applies to small antennas. As you can see, the above figures are pretty tiddly compared to what we = are used to at 136k, or at HF for that matter. At my QTH, the FS due to the nearby broadcast transmitters is around 20V/m. Does anyone know offhand = what Ofcom might regard as an unacceptable field strength? I guess one reason Ofcom might be nervous about permitting higher ERPs = is the possible effect on MF broadcast receivers with both RF and IF frequencies fairly close to the band. But this does not seem to be a = huge problem with 160m, or MF beacons. Another possibility might be the = Navtex marine safety broadcasts on 490 and 518kHz, whose receivers might get swamped - but I would think the likelihood of this would be pretty low = also. BTW - what are the correct emission codes for modes like PSK31 or Wolf, = and FSK / mFSK signals like DFCW and Jason? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Dave G3WCB Sent: 21 February 2007 17:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: John W Gould Subject: RE: LF: Special Research Permits (501-504kHz) for UK Amateurs The first UK applicant to get a 500kHz SRP has to buy the beers. (Won't = be me...I haven't yet figured out how to measure the field strength inside = my neighbour's siting-room, will it interfere with his toaster, etc) 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of = k2ors@comcast.net Sent: 21 February 2007 13:17 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: John W Gould Subject: Re: LF: Special Research Permits (501-504kHz) for UK Amateurs Hi John and the list, Congratulations on your new experimental allocation! I see that = Ofcom is restricting your experiment to very low power levels: "In general, considerably lower e.r.p. levels than that permitted in the = 136 kHz band are likely to be favourable and this will only be permitted = where it can be demonstrated that increased powers are necessary for research. = On no account will an e.r.p. level of greater than - 10 dBW be permitted = under any circumstance." This will pretty much preclude transatlantic work, except possibly for QRS, which is a pity. I wonder what it is that Ofcom is worried about interfering with? The U.S. experimental stations are limited to 20 = watts erp, which is 23dB more than Ofcom is allow U.K. amateurs. -- 73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ/WD2XSH/23 FN42hi http://www.w4dex.com/wd2xgj.htm -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "John W Gould" > Ofcom has announced today that a limited number of SRPs will me made > available for 12 months from 1st March. See > > http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licensing/classes/amateur/Notices/= 200 > 70221 > > and the RSGB and Spectrum Forum websites. > > 73 John, G3WKL > RSGB HF Manager > > >