X-GM-THRID: 1216926670478174965 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf X-Gmail-Received: 4f278f7f5caf4e9bd71a64888222e6452f2194fe Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.78.205.5 with SMTP id c5cs191266hug; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.242.20 with SMTP id p20mr5342537ugh; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 30si1185811ugf.2006.10.14.01.21.03; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) DomainKey-Status: good (test mode) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1GYeiU-0001CB-4v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 09:17:58 +0100 Received: from [193.82.59.130] (helo=relay2.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1GYeiT-0001C2-B8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 09:17:57 +0100 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.187]) by relay2.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.51) id 1GYeiP-0006QE-2U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 09:17:57 +0100 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a27so1145551nfc for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:16:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=googlemail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=atlCn+DEEgrdeztveLKf+B+7wdGXLpjfd8oFzSlz8tgEjiDkhNjfcGEHDmBZuxCJT011Vzj1xGtte6143qorRnQJBGflLFGzQdamH7G1aglXQwLczyc73cwqvcCDB39YWJMe2kd14HkcCeL/3p51SraZ6v9C8VNhKlMS+PiYcWw= Received: by 10.48.254.10 with SMTP id b10mr8357152nfi; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.48.212.18 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 09:16:49 +0100 From: "Andy Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <453085C2.10209@telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D06F3DAAE@mail.dstl.gov.uk> <20061013173653.akwlctzadpm8s4ko@webmail.versatel.de> <005b01c6eeed$80a51480$0300a8c0@lark> <20061014005137.9e85gpqi0p5wwook@webmail.versatel.de> <000c01c6ef1d$136df0a0$0300a8c0@lark> <453085C2.10209@telus.net> X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,AMATEUR_PORN=0.769,AWL=-0.237,HTML_20_30=0.504,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RCVD_BY_IP=0.024 Subject: Re: LF: GPS Locked test transmission Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_114113_29471837.1160813809604" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.9 required=5.0 tests=AMATEUR_PORN,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3886 ------=_Part_114113_29471837.1160813809604 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I am using th3 AD9852 DDS for this transmission with its 48 bit tuning word, so frequency setting is to within 10^-14 - in other words exact ;-) I have only just subscribed to the reflector on my home email account, so would otherwise have missed this thread. I was hoping to go to bed early tonight for a early start walking tomorrow, so will do a shorter off period than Uwe suggested. I'll drop power at 2100z , go off at 2130z then on again at 2200z Andy G4JNT On 14/10/06, Scott Tilley wrote: > > Hi Alan and other clicklockers... > > All should be fine if the CFH stuff is not exactly on 137.00000000ish > > The clicklock alg. can easily resolve in the sub mHz region so seeing > around QRM should be easy. > > Even the Russian loran line shouldn't really cause QRM if your careful > in the interpretation of the data if you switch phase on the amateur > signal for the same reason a PSK31 signal produces two lines in its idle > mode. Our early experiments used this feature to produce unique > sequences based on the phase switching time so that QRM such as loran > lines could be excluded and the real amateur signal identified. I > modified my DDS software to allow phase switching in 11 degree ish > increments to play with this concept and had lots of fun pulling my clip > leads radiated signals from across the yard out of the noise. I believe > the ZLs also evolved this to a higher degree in their experiments. > > Depending on the version of the alg you're using they may need to use > certain freq that the DDS can produce which are rational numbers. > Peter's 'spinfreq' adaption allowed for using irrational numbers but the > absolute GPS phase reference gets lost if I recall. Of course Peter had > a solution to that as well involving some real fancy stuff to get it > back using the loran pulses if my memory serves me well... > > I'd suggest breaking out Excel and play with the FFT feature and create > your own methods to extract the signal and you may be surprised. I have > a template around here somewhere that could be used for experimenting if > you need something to start off with. Peter may have something more up > to date... > > 73 Scott > > > Alan Melia wrote: > > Hi Uwe, i would think it would be better fot Andy to avoid exact > frequecies > > like that also I wonder if you were receiving a line from CFH which is > > centred there and has been active the last few nights. It is not so > strong > > at the moment but is visible on Spectran here, as a noisy 200Hz wide > band. > > (GMSK) > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: 13 October 2006 23:51 > > Subject: Re: LF: GPS Locked test transmission > > > > > > > >> Zitat von Alan Melia : > >> > >> > >>> Hi Uwe, you are receiving this through the CFH "noise" as well?? > >>> Cheers de Alan G3NYK > >>> > >>> > >> Yes, Alan, I did. but, but, but, home agn at midnight I switched on the > >> equipment and do see nothing. possibly I registrated the carrier Markus > >> mentioned and not the transmission of G4JNT. > >> > >> Andy, is your transmission off the air? > >> > >> regards > >> Uwe/dj8wx > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------=_Part_114113_29471837.1160813809604 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
I am using th3 AD9852 DDS for this transmission with its 48 bit tuning word, so frequency setting is to within 10^-14 - in other words exact ;-)
 
I have only just subscribed to the reflector on my home email account, so would otherwise have missed  this thread.   I was hoping to go to bed early tonight for a early start walking tomorrow, so will do a shorter off period than Uwe suggested.  I'll drop power at 2100z , go off at 2130z then on again at 2200z
 
Andy  G4JNT

 
On 14/10/06, Scott Tilley <sthed475@telus.net> wrote:
Hi Alan and other clicklockers...

All should be fine if the CFH stuff is not exactly on 137.00000000ish

The clicklock alg. can easily resolve in the sub mHz region so seeing
around QRM should be easy.

Even the Russian loran line shouldn't really cause QRM if your careful
in the interpretation of the data if you switch phase on the amateur
signal for the same reason a PSK31 signal produces two lines in its idle
mode.  Our early experiments used this feature to produce unique
sequences based on the phase switching time so that QRM such as loran
lines could be excluded and the real amateur signal identified.  I
modified my DDS software to allow phase switching in 11 degree ish
increments to play with this concept and had lots of fun pulling my clip
leads radiated signals from across the yard out of the noise.  I believe
the ZLs also evolved this to a higher degree in their experiments.

Depending on the version of the alg you're using they may need to use
certain freq that the DDS can produce which are rational numbers.
Peter's 'spinfreq' adaption allowed for using irrational numbers but the
absolute GPS phase reference gets lost if I recall.  Of course Peter had
a solution to that as well involving some real fancy stuff to get it
back using the loran pulses if my memory serves me well...

I'd suggest breaking out Excel and play with the FFT feature and create
your own methods to extract the signal and you may be surprised.  I have
a template around here somewhere that could be used for experimenting if
you need something to start off with.  Peter may have something more up
to date...

73 Scott


Alan Melia wrote:
> Hi Uwe, i would think it would be better fot Andy to avoid exact frequecies
> like that also I wonder if you were receiving a line from CFH which is
> centred there and has been active the last few nights. It is not so strong
> at the moment but is visible on Spectran here, as a noisy 200Hz wide band.
> (GMSK)
> Cheers de Alan G3NYK
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <uwe-jannsen@versanet.de>
> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> Sent: 13 October 2006 23:51
> Subject: Re: LF: GPS Locked test transmission
>
>
>
>> Zitat von Alan Melia <alan.melia@btinternet.com >:
>>
>>
>>> Hi Uwe, you are receiving this through the CFH "noise" as well??
>>> Cheers de Alan G3NYK
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, Alan, I did. but, but, but, home agn at midnight I switched on the
>> equipment and do see nothing. possibly I registrated the carrier Markus
>> mentioned and not the transmission of G4JNT.
>>
>> Andy, is your transmission off the air?
>>
>> regards
>> Uwe/dj8wx
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


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