X-GM-THRID: 1213326906616925271 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf X-Gmail-Received: a552e1783f0d9fa809d38f08a22c34089ea7c67e Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.249.16 with SMTP id w16cs213436qbh; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 06:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.10.3 with SMTP id n3mr3049922nfi; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 06:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id o45si2453169nfa.2006.09.01.06.51.47; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 06:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (gmail.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1GJ9KR-0001z4-UC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:45:03 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1GJ9KR-0001yv-76 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:45:03 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GJ9KL-0003gm-4A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:45:03 +0100 Received: from [147.197.215.113] (helo=tucana.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1GJ9KE-0005f0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:44:50 +0100 Received: from [147.197.164.230] (helo=RD40002) by tucana.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1GJ9K7-0002i5-W3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:44:44 +0100 From: "james moritz" To: Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:44:43 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c6cdcc$c7d20490$e6a4c593@RD40002> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000301c6cd25$289ed620$6501a8c0@eagles> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-UH-MailScanner: No Virus detected X-UH-MailScanner-Information: X-H-UH-MailScanner: No Virus detected X-UH-MailScanner-From: j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,AWL=-0.600 Subject: LF: RE: Why? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5289 Dear J, Markus, LF Group, I would agree with all Markus says. The current-mode class D = configuration requires a high power supply source impedance at the output frequency - hence the series choke and no bypass capacitor. Otherwise, you would be trying to force a square-wave voltage to appear at the input of the pi-section output filter. If all the components were "ideal", a square = wave voltage would require the filter capacitor voltage to change instantly = from the positive peak value to the negative peak value, requiring an = infinitely large current to flow for an infinitesimal period of time to discharge = and recharge the capacitor. Of course, this can't happen in the real world, = and in practice, if you try to do it, what you get are big current spikes = that cause a lot of heating in all the components involved, and something has = to give way. With the series choke, the DC supply current is limited to a nearly = constant value during a cycle. This results in an approximately square current waveform without big current spikes being delivered to the filter input, with a voltage waveform that depends on the filter component values and configuration. In an ideal class D circuit, in which the filter has an infinite loaded Q, the voltage would be sinusoidal. In practice, the = loaded filter Q is usually 1 or less in this type of circuit, and the waveform = is a bit "lumpy", but still a reasonable approximation. In practical circuits, the components, in particular the transformer, = have stray capacitances and inductances, which, when included in the circuit diagram, mean the circuit isn't exactly a current-switching or voltage switching circuit. The result of this is that there usually are both = current and voltage spikes in the waveforms, and multiple resonant frequencies = that give rise to "ringing" but these can be kept quite small with careful design, and the addition of some RC damping, without reducing efficiency significantly. The main culprit is the leakage inductance of the transformer; making the coupling between windings as tight as possible helps, by using foil windings, bifilar windings etc. Using only the = minimum winding inductance required to avoid excessive core heating helps too. Some designs do have a pi-section capacitor input filter with a = decoupling capacitor at the centre tap. These can work if the leakage inductance is high enough to limit the current to a reasonable level, but it is = difficult to achieve a specified value of leakage inductance, and this always = seems to result in unwanted resonances at low harmonics of the switching = frequency. Such circuits have large amplitude odd-harmonic currents, which increase heating and reduce efficiency in an unpredictable way. Regarding the spikes in the output waveform - any narrow (a microsecond = or less) spike should be very highly attenuated by the low-pass filter. Assuming the filter components are OK, it is possible that what you are seeing are switching transients that are being picked up by the scope = probes or input leads. If you connect the scope input to the ground point at = the filter output, and you still see spikes, this is what is happening. In = this case, don't worry about it too much! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of J. Allen Sent: 31 August 2006 18:45 To: LF (RSGB) Subject: LF: Why? Thinkers, What are the reasons for not bypassing the center tap on the push-pull = amps=20 apart from high bypass current? There are spikes on the rising edge near the positive and negative peaks = in=20 the waveform of the output from the LPF from the amp I am working on, = and=20 bypassing the center tap to ground cleared up the spikes. It also = cleared=20 up the bypass capacitor :o). J.=20