X-GM-THRID: 1212386569664156523 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf X-Gmail-Received: 83faed9fe1f34cea6b1fc635d8eb8c77e40dc8c5 Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.249.16 with SMTP id w16cs214291qbh; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.29.3 with SMTP id g3mr475921nfj; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id p43si36329nfa.2006.08.21.21.45.31; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (gmail.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1GFO1z-0000nu-Os for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:38:27 +0100 Received: from [193.82.59.130] (helo=relay2.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1GFO1y-0000nl-T9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:38:26 +0100 Received: from bay0-omc1-s41.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.246.113]) by relay2.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.51) id 1GFO1u-0006kJ-8v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:38:26 +0100 Received: from BAY124-W14 ([207.46.11.177]) by bay0-omc1-s41.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:38:15 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [218.249.195.2] X-Originating-Email: [hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com] Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Laurence KL1X" To: "Laurence KL1X" Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:38:16 -0800 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Aug 2006 04:38:15.0989 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8BEBE50:01C6C5A4] X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,AWL=-0.098,FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD=2.132,HTML_20_30=0.504,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_512de801-e672-4cb1-9a91-89f1ef135291_" Subject: LF: These sliding doors again X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4619 --_512de801-e672-4cb1-9a91-89f1ef135291_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Considering the extenuative affects to kill common mode qrm coming from ins= ide the room, up the coax and out Ive been playing to try to find out whats= what. Yep an Im using isolating toroids and all that guff. =20 Here we go =20 For a merit test I "built" my own 4 x 3 metre flexible doorway in an area s= imilar but without the metal frame being there. This was with one continuou= s length of folded aluminum foil some 4 cms in width and a couple of thickn= esses to give it some mechanical strength with all that tugging - and some= 14 metres in circumference. =20 I compared the extenuative results of common in building noise with the on= e with a known killer of QRN my favorite sliding balcony door frame - At 13= 7 Khz the door frame gave appx 30-40dB of noize attenuation (nice) my alumi= num made up version standalone 4dB... or less. Open circuiting the alumini= um made up little difference So I pondered - I knew from testing in Singapore that the metal frame in my= hotel that worked so well wasn't connected to "mains" earth - but what abo= ut this one here in Shanghai? - Measured it and hey presto it is, and low Z= too, certainly less than 1 ohm - theyve added a Earth safety strap somew= here and all the buildings doorways and sliding doors on the balconies are = all boded together at "building earth" (notice Im not saying radio) potenti= al and defacto we have a screened box - with my eprobe poking out of one si= de and the screen connected to that box. =20 So this left the question of what was happening in Singapore? - Ive found o= ut that the sliding door frame is connected to the steel work of the buildi= ng but for some reason there is No connection to the mains earth in the 220= vac supply - I actually think this is a bit dodgy but heck that mains earth= was hot with RF and brought the noise up by 30dB, here luckily in Shanghai= it doesn't. =20 Choosing the right balcony sliding door for your probe has merits - the one= on the North side cuts the noize out but then I get pylon hash, the one on= the southside is much quieter but now screened from Asia/Americas and Eu -= but I can still see DCF39 =20 So no tuned loops, tooned earths, counterpoises or what ever just a screene= d metal box that keeps the rubbish mostly inside. Mostly. As Ive seen befor= e if I was on the top floor its works pretty well for rx if i can get my pr= obe above the roof line but Im on floor 3 out of 12 and by pushing the pro= be out further and further away from the building makes a huge difference -= more than 1 S point per metre at 200Khz on some of the local NDB's.=20 =20 I have a cunning plan (as one famous actor said once "so cunning if you put= a tail on it, you would call it a fox"), to get some form of earth into th= e ground and extend is camouflaged up the side of the building. If it works= it will be interesting to see what if any affect is has on the qrm, if it = doesn't Ill probably be in jail. =20 Laurence, KL1X in BY, enroute tomorrow to KL7 From: hellozerohellozero@hotmail.comTo: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.orgDate: F= ri, 18 Aug 2006 14:33:59 -0800Subject: LF: condx DCF39 seen here from 1809z till 2143z - signals were coming and going and b= elow audible - The signal here was seen some 24mins before sundown at Magde= burg and lost at my dawn. Theres hope! Laurence PM01 ShanghaiMini whip on a= 7m fishing pole shoved out horizontally off a 3rd floor screened balcony = =20 Express yourself instantly with Windows Live Messenger! Windows Live Messen= ger!=20 _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=3Dhmtag1&loc=3Dus= --_512de801-e672-4cb1-9a91-89f1ef135291_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A=
Considering the extenuative affects to kill common mode qrm comin= g from inside the room, up the coax and out Ive been playing to try to find= out whats what. Yep an Im using isolating toroids and all that guff.
 
Here we go
 
For a merit test I "built" my own 4 x 3 metre flexible doorway in an area <= FONT>similar but without the metal frame being there. This was with on= e continuous length of folded aluminum foil some 4 cms in width and a coupl= e of thicknesses to give it some mechanical strength with all that tugging = -  and some 14 metres in circumference.
 
 I compared the extenuative results of common in building noise = with the one with a known killer of QRN my favorite sliding balcony door fr= ame - At 137 Khz the door frame gave appx 30-40dB of noize attenuation (nic= e) my aluminum  made up version standalone 4dB... or less. Open circui= ting the aluminium made up little difference

So I pondered - I knew from testing in Singapore that the metal frame in my= hotel that worked so well wasn't connected to "mains" earth - but what abo= ut this one here in Shanghai? - Measured it and hey presto it is, and low Z= too, certainly less than 1 ohm  -  theyve added a Earth safety s= trap somewhere and all the buildings doorways and sliding doors on the balc= onies are all boded together at "building earth" (notice Im not saying radi= o) potential and defacto we have a screened box - with my eprobe poking out= of one side and the screen connected to that box.
 
So this left the question of what was happening in Singapore? - Ive found o= ut that the sliding door frame is connected to the steel work of the buildi= ng but for some reason there is No connection to the mains earth in the 220= vac supply - I actually think this is a bit dodgy but heck that mains earth= was hot with RF and brought the noise up by 30dB, here luckily in Shanghai= it doesn't.
 
Choosing the right balcony sliding door for your probe has merits - the one= on the North side cuts the noize out but then I get pylon hash, the one on= the southside is much quieter but now screened from Asia/Americas and Eu -= but I can still see DCF39
 
So no tuned loops, tooned earths, counterpoises or what ever just a screene= d metal box that keeps the rubbish mostly inside. Mostly. As Ive seen befor= e if I was on the top floor its works pretty well for rx if i can get my pr= obe above the roof line but Im on floor  3 out of 12 and by pushing th= e probe out further and further away from the building makes a huge differe= nce - more than 1 S point per metre at 200Khz on some of the local ND= B's.
 
I have a cunning plan (as one famous actor said once "so cunning if you put= a tail on it, you would call it a fox"), to get some form of earth into th= e ground and extend is camouflaged up the side of the building. If it= works it will be interesting to see what if any affect is has on the qrm, if it doesn't Ill probably be in jail.
 
Laurence, KL1X in BY, enroute  tomorrow to KL7



From: hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.orgDate: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:33:59 -0800
Subject: LF: condx

DCF39 seen here from 1809z till 2143z - signals were coming and going and b= elow audible - The signal here was seen some 24mins before sundown at Magde= burg and lost at my dawn. Theres hope!
 
Laurence PM01 Shanghai<= BR>Mini whip on a 7m fishing pole shoved out horizontally off a 3rd floor s= creened balcony  

Express yourself instantly with Windows Live Messenger! Windows Live Messenger!
Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces Try it!=0A= = --_512de801-e672-4cb1-9a91-89f1ef135291_--