Received-SPF: neutral (gmail.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org)
From: MarkusVester@aol.com
Message-ID: <329.b551144.32260914@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:18:12 EDT
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_329.b551144.32260914_boundary"
Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Status: O


--part1_329.b551144.32260914_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Alan and Geri,

... I have to confess that I had actually sent an eMail to the EFR back in=20
2000, suggesting 85% energy savings (and less Luxembourg QRM for us) by redu=
cing=20
idle carrier power by 13 dB (http://members.aol.com/df6nm2/to_efr.txt). For=20
propagation monitoring in sub-Hz bandwidth you would of course get a weaker=20
carrier, but probably not be disturbed by the power change during the relati=
vely=20
wideband FSK telegrams. Anyway I think their current instabilities seem to b=
e=20
related to technical problems rather than intentional actions.

One thing I have been pondering is that if we would record the carrier phase=
=20
evolution locally and distribute it by internet, a distant monitoring statio=
n=20
could use that information to deconvolve the received DCF signal and narrow=20=
it=20
down from about 0.1 Hz to any sub-milliHz bandwidth, gaining at least 20 dB=20
in sensitivity. We could reference the phase log to GPS-derived 138830 Hz,=20
which would enable the use of coherent signal processing techniques as sugge=
sted=20
by G3PLX and others. A practical data format could be IQ pairs at one sample=
=20
per second, with a new file starting every full hour.

73 de Markus, DF6NM

In einer eMail vom 29.08.2006 11:55:50 Westeurop=E4ische Sommerzeit schreibt=
=20
alan.melia@btinternet.com:=20

> Hi Geri, mmmm I hope not, because random changes in level will kill it as=20=
a
> useful beacon source, and relagate it to the category of QRM.
>=20
> Cheers de Alan G3NYK
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Holger 'Geri', DK8KW <geri@dk8kw.de>
> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> Sent: 29 August 2006 05:43
> Subject: Re: LF: DCF39
>=20
>=20
> Hello Markus,
>=20
> very interesting graph.
>=20
> I guess at the currently high energy costs someone at the Europ=E4ischen
> Funkrundsteuerung GmbH (EFR) must have started to think if it is really
> necessary to put a 40 to 50 kW permanent carrier on the air to remotely
> switch on and off street lamp. These 3 dB steps might be tests for a syste=
m
> to reduce the carrier level at least between the telegrams to save costs.
>=20
> Best 73
>=20
> Geri, DK8KW / W1KW / DI2BO
>=20
>=20


--part1_329.b551144.32260914_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"2">Dear Alan and Geri,<BR>
<BR>
... I have to confess that I had actually sent an eMail to the EFR back in 2=
000, suggesting 85% energy savings (and less Luxembourg QRM for us) by reduc=
ing idle carrier power by 13 dB (<A HREF=3D"http://members.aol.com/df6nm2/to=
_efr.txt">http://members.aol.com/df6nm2/to_efr.txt</A>). For propagation mon=
itoring in sub-Hz bandwidth you would of course get a weaker carrier, but pr=
obably not be disturbed by the power change during the relatively wideband F=
SK telegrams. Anyway I think their current instabilities seem to be related=20=
to technical problems rather than intentional actions.<BR>
<BR>
One thing I have been pondering is that if we would record the carrier phase=
 evolution locally and distribute it by internet, a distant monitoring stati=
on could use that information to deconvolve the received DCF signal and narr=
ow it down from about 0.1 Hz to any sub-milliHz bandwidth, gaining at least=20=
20 dB in sensitivity. We could reference the phase log to GPS-derived 138830=
 Hz, which would enable the use of coherent signal processing techniques as=20=
suggested by G3PLX and others. A practical data format could be IQ pairs at=20=
one sample per second, with a new file starting every full hour.<BR>
<BR>
73 de Markus, DF6NM<BR>
<BR>
In einer eMail vom 29.08.2006 11:55:50 Westeurop=E4ische Sommerzeit schreibt=
 alan.melia@btinternet.com: <BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hi Geri, mmmm I hope not, becau=
se random changes in level will kill it as a<BR>
useful beacon source, and relagate it to the category of QRM.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers de Alan G3NYK<BR>
<BR>
----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Holger 'Geri', DK8KW &lt;geri@dk8kw.de&gt;<BR>
To: &lt;rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org&gt;<BR>
Sent: 29 August 2006 05:43<BR>
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hello Markus,<BR>
<BR>
very interesting graph.<BR>
<BR>
I guess at the currently high energy costs someone at the Europ=E4ischen<BR>
Funkrundsteuerung GmbH (EFR) must have started to think if it is really<BR>
necessary to put a 40 to 50 kW permanent carrier on the air to remotely<BR>
switch on and off street lamp. These 3 dB steps might be tests for a system<=
BR>
to reduce the carrier level at least between the telegrams to save costs.<BR=
>
<BR>
Best 73<BR>
<BR>
Geri, DK8KW / W1KW / DI2BO<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_329.b551144.32260914_boundary--