X-GM-THRID: 1203350633376413987 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf X-Gmail-Received: e06a731a53608143cb0b85d1150733e2f828dc80 Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.54.72.5 with SMTP id u5cs12212wra; Mon, 15 May 2006 16:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.48.213.11 with SMTP id l11mr4029746nfg; Mon, 15 May 2006 16:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id m15si198274nfc.2006.05.15.16.06.23; Mon, 15 May 2006 16:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (gmail.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ffm47-0007Eh-4B for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 May 2006 00:01:27 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ffm46-0007EY-FX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 May 2006 00:01:26 +0100 Received: from smtp.telefonica.net ([213.4.149.66] helo=ctsmtpout3.frontal.correo) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.51) id 1Ffo0R-0004ay-3u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 May 2006 02:06:02 +0100 Received: from PC2 (81.39.103.142) by ctsmtpout3.frontal.correo (7.2.056.6) (authenticated as JPRADOES$telefonica.net) id 446866B60001A681 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 May 2006 01:01:08 +0200 Message-ID: <004701c67873$67748720$2201a8c0@PC2> From: "Jose Manuel" To: References: <003c01c67744$f08f9160$2201a8c0@PC2> <6.1.0.6.2.20060515132009.037b1cf0@127.0.0.1> Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 01:00:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.05,HTML_40_50=0.086,HTML_FONT_FACE_CAPS=0.804,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 ERP and field strength Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0044_01C67884.2A993E20" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5422 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C67884.2A993E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Dick: I took a plot, last month, of the transmission of a Spanish colleague, = who is in Madrid, at 500 km as well, and the signal level during the day = was not stable, varying around 3 or 4 dB; I guess that the D layer = reflection for this range is not low. On the other hand, Dick , I think that the mean soil conductivity for = your path , in my modest opinion, should be lower than 0.01 S/m, taking = into account the conductivity map that can be seen in the Geri=B4s page. I agree with you that, for this 500 km range, there is high uncertainty = in the determination of radiated power. 73 de Jos=E9, EA1PX ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dick Rollema=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 ERP and field strength Dear Jose, You wrote: In the web of Geri, DK8KW, can be seen that DCF39 ERP is 40KW (22KW = EMRP), based on measurements made by Geri some years ago. For this = radiater power corresponds, at 1800 Km, in function of inverse of = distance, 58 dB(uV/m); last nigth I made measurement of 60 dB(uV/m), so = I wonder if still DCF39=B4s power is the same as before, and if the = previous theorical field strength, with no reflection loss, can be = exceeded some times due to the several propagation factors involved. I measure the field strength of DCF39 at 2078 microvolt/metre (66.35 = dB=B5V) , as it is always at daytime. The distance between my location and DCF39 is about 500 km. Using the = graph for "LAND" (conductivity 0.03 S/m, dielectric constant 40) in = CCIR Recommandation 368-7: GROUND-WAVE PROPAGATION CURVES FOR = FREQUENCIES BETWEEN 10 KHz AND MHz I find the power of DCF39 to be 39.8 = kW. This should be rounded to 40 kW of course. That this agrees so = well with the 40 kW mentioned by Geri is pure coincidence, given the = uncertainties involved. 73, Dick, PA0SE JN22GD ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C67884.2A993E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Dick:
 
 I took a plot, last month, of the = transmission of a Spanish colleague, who is in Madrid, at 500 km as = well, and=20 the signal level during the day was not stable, varying around 3 or 4 = dB; I=20 guess that the D layer reflection for this range is not = low.
 
On the other hand, Dick , I think that = the mean=20 soil conductivity for your path , in my modest opinion, should be lower = than=20 0.01 S/m, taking into account the conductivity map that can be seen in = the=20 Geri=B4s page.
 
I agree with you that, for this 500 km = range, there=20 is high uncertainty in the determination of radiated power.
 
 
73 de Jos=E9, EA1PX
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dick=20 Rollema
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 2:11 = PM
Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 ERP and = field=20 strength

Dear Jose,

You wrote:

In the web of Geri, DK8KW, can be seen that DCF39 ERP is = 40KW (22KW=20 EMRP), based on measurements made by Geri some years ago. For this = radiater=20 power corresponds, at 1800 Km, in function of inverse of distance, = 58=20 dB(uV/m); last nigth I made measurement of 60 dB(uV/m), so I wonder = if still=20 DCF39=B4s power is the same as before, and if the previous theorical = field=20 strength, with no reflection loss, can be exceeded some times due to = the=20 several propagation factors involved.

I = measure the=20 field strength of DCF39 at 2078 microvolt/metre (66.35 dB=B5V) , as it = is=20 always  at daytime.

The distance between my  location = and=20 DCF39 is about 500 km. Using the graph for "LAND" (conductivity 0.03 = S/m,=20 dielectric constant 40)  in CCIR Recommandation 368-7: = GROUND-WAVE=20 PROPAGATION CURVES FOR FREQUENCIES BETWEEN 10 KHz AND MHz I find = the power=20 of DCF39 to be 39.8 kW.  This should be rounded to 40 kW of = course. =20 That this agrees so well with the 40 kW mentioned by  Geri is = pure=20 coincidence, given the uncertainties involved.

73, Dick, PA0SE
JN22GD=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C67884.2A993E20--