X-GM-THRID: 1201092871102915278 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf X-Gmail-Received: bf1a95abbe74fea8bbbc89a6d48868dab1dc53a3 Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.54.70.6 with SMTP id s6cs12707wra; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.64.6 with SMTP id r6mr1381863nfk; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id n23si94336nfc.2006.04.19.07.25.41; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (gmail.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1FWDYj-0008F6-Go for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:21:33 +0100 Received: from [193.82.59.130] (helo=relay2.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1FWDYi-0008Ex-ND for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:21:32 +0100 Received: from rusty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.240.42]) by relay2.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.51) id 1FWEs2-00055V-Cj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:45:40 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rusty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 224681D7883 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:21:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp02.kuleuven.be (lepidus.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.240.72]) by rusty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA511D785D for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:21:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp02.kuleuven.be (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9F82CAAF9; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:21:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.be (pc-10-33-165-177.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [10.33.165.177]) by smtp02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 985902CAA3A for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:21:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20060419162451.02431a98@u0019445.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: u0019445@u0019445.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:29:49 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: Rik Strobbe In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20060419144651.02a19240@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by KULeuven Antivirus Cluster X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,AWL=-1.178,FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.05,HTML_10_20=0.295,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Top load coil at ground level? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_112783609==_.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6688 --=====================_112783609==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Dick, I guess you are right with "The stub functions as a transmission line to transfer the inductive reactance of the coil to the top of the radiator." But I am afraid that for any reasonable antenna height (< 50..100m) the stub is that short (in wavelengths) that it will hardly transfer any reactance. What is the result when you model both quarter wave 80m antennas (+/- 20 m height) for 2200m ? 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T At 14:54 19/04/2006 +0200, you wrote: >To All from PA0SE, > >By chance I came across an interesting article in the Dutch weekly (!) >magazine Radio Expres of 11 January 1934. It referred to an article in the >Proceedings of the IRE of December 1933 by Nickle, Dome and Brown on a >procedure to increase of the feed point impedance of a vertical antenna by >means of top loading. A normal way is to use a series resonant circuit as >in fig.1, consisting of a capacitive hat and a coil. The coil is in a >awkward position for tuning. The alternative by Nickle, Dome and Brown is >to use a short circuited stub slightly shorter than an quarter wave that >at its top end produces the proper inductive reactance for series >resonance with the capacitive hat. Indicated in fig. 2a. The system is >tuned by moving the short circuit at the bottom up or down. The left leg >of the stub is doubling as the radiator. An easier way of tuning is to >make the stub too short and lengthening it with a coil(b) or a stub that >is too long and shortening it by a capacitor (c). I modelled a quarter >wave vertical for 80 m according to (c) using Antenna Optimizer by Brian >Beezley, K6STI. When in resonance the feed point impedance was raised from >36 ohm without top load to 4925 ohm! The radiation diagram was identical >to the one for the unloaded vertical within a few tenths of a dB. > >It occurred to me that the system could perhaps also be used for a 136kHz >vertical. Using system (b) in fig.2 the loading coil between top of the >radiator and topload could be at ground level. The stub functions as a >transmission line to transfer the inductive reactance of the coil to the >top of the radiator. Of course a second coil could be inserted between >bottom of the stub and ground for matching and feeding of the antenna. > >What do you think? > >73, Dick, PA0SE > > > > > Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm --=====================_112783609==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dick,

I guess you are right with
"The stub functions as a transmission line to transfer the inductive reactance of the coil to the top of the radiator."

But I am afraid that for any reasonable antenna height (< 50..100m) the stub is that short (in wavelengths) that it will hardly transfer any reactance.
What is the result when you model both quarter wave 80m antennas (+/- 20 m height) for 2200m ?

73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T

At 14:54 19/04/2006 +0200, you wrote:
To All from PA0SE,

By chance I came across an interesting article in the Dutch weekly (!) magazine Radio Expres of 11 January 1934. It referred to an article in the Proceedings of the IRE of December 1933 by Nickle, Dome and Brown on a procedure to increase of the feed point impedance of a vertical antenna by means of top loading. A normal way is to use a series resonant circuit as in fig.1, consisting of a capacitive hat and a coil. The coil is in a awkward position for tuning. The alternative by Nickle, Dome and Brown is to use a short circuited stub slightly shorter than an quarter wave that at its top end produces the proper inductive reactance for series resonance with the capacitive hat. Indicated in fig. 2a. The system is tuned by moving the short circuit at the bottom up or down. The left leg of the stub is doubling as the radiator. An easier way of tuning is to make the stub too short and lengthening it with a coil(b) or a stub that is too long and shortening it by a capacitor (c). I modelled a quarter wave vertical for 80 m according to (c) using Antenna Optimizer by Brian Beezley, K6STI. When in resonance the feed point impedance was raised from 36 ohm without top load to 4925 ohm! The radiation diagram was identical to the one for the unloaded vertical within a few tenths of a dB.

It occurred to me that the system could perhaps also be used for a 136kHz vertical. Using system (b) in fig.2 the loading coil between top of the radiator and topload could be at ground level. The stub functions as a transmission line to transfer the inductive reactance of the coil to the top of the radiator. Of course a second coil could be inserted between bottom of the stub and ground for matching and feeding of the antenna.

What do you think?

73, Dick, PA0SE

     





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