Envelope-to: dave@picks.force9.co.uk
Delivery-date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:41:53 +0000
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From: "Laurence KL1X" <hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 15:40:41 -0900
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Subject: RE: LF: Fuzzy lines
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A bit more on the KL7 ghosts.

In Alaska DCF39 didnt have to be strong at all for fuzzies to appear - from 
memory (also fuzzy) I started to see products  on argo dot 60 at detectable 
CW levels from DCF39. Loran C stations were at TOK, and Kodiak (and others) 
the nearest a couple of hundred miles away...but they were 20 over even at 
137Khz in 2.8Khz b/w. The rx was and still is the 870 and did dissapear with 
the NB off - the NB by the way on the 870 is very effective visually at 
knocking off Loran  and knocks the 850 into a "cocked hat"  NB wise - kinda 
interesting. Recently (Ok a year or so ago) I remember more discussions on 
visual by-products being detected by someone but again from a fuzzy memory 
they werent  associated or were eliminated as due to NB or intermods. Not 
sure if the manifestation was cleared up....

Ill see if I can find some of the old captures from AK but it makes me 
"homesick" looking at them...

Laurence KL1X/5... yearing for mountains...


>From: "Dave Pick" <dave@picks.force9.co.uk>
>Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
>Subject: RE: LF: Fuzzy lines
>Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 23:18:12 -0000
>
>Markus
>
>Interesting. The frequencies are right. I could understand the Rugby one
>because that's loud here but neither DCF39 nor Lessay are loud enough to
>intermod locally so where does that product get generated?
>
>Dave G3YXM
>
>
>   _____
>
>From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of
>MarkusVester@aol.com
>Sent: 05 November 2005 22:04
>To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>Subject: Re: LF: Fuzzy lines
>
>
>Dear Dave and LF,
>
>this seems to be an intermodulation between DCF39 (abt 0.1Hz wide due to 
>the
>data telegrams every 10s) and Loran C. The lines in you screenshot are
>138830.03 - 142 * 50000 / 6731 = 137775.21 (Lessay, Soustons, Sylt, Rugby)
>and
>138830.03 - 158 * 50000 / 7499 = 137776.56 (Sylt, Lessay, Verlandet).
>The latter one is a little surprising because Rugby does not appear to be
>dual rated.
>
>Laurence KL1X saw similar DCF ghosts in December 2003, which appeared every
>time the path was open from Germany to Alaska. For a while we speculated
>about possible ionospheric crossmodulation, but then Laurence confirmed 
>that
>the spurs were caused by periodic triggering of his noise blanker on the
>Pacific Loran pulses. We also found a faint hint of a Sylt + DCF39
>combination in one of Alan's screenshots.
>
>Hope this helps...
>
>73 de Markus, DF6NM
>
>
>In einer eMail vom 05.11.2005 21:03:36 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
>dave@picks.force9.co.uk:
>
>
>
>Dear all
>
>Myself and Gary G4WGT both see these fuzzy lines on Argo. I seem to 
>remember
>some discussion of their origin before but can't remember whether there was
>a definite answer.
>The come in at dusk and stay 'till dawn!
>
>73
>Dave G3YXM.
>
>
>
>