Envelope-to: dave@picks.force9.co.uk Delivery-date: Tue, 24 May 2005 18:06:57 +0100 Received: by pih-mxcore09.plus.net with spam-scanned (PlusNet MXCore v2.00) id 1Dacro-00038k-7O for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:06:56 +0100 Received: from post.thorcom.com ([193.82.116.20]) by pih-mxcore09.plus.net with esmtp (PlusNet MXCore v2.00) id 1Dacro-00038M-2A for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:06:56 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1DacrG-0006UW-ND for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:06:22 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.30] (helo=relay.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1DacrG-0006UN-7e for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:06:22 +0100 Received: from sterling.noc-servers.net ([69.93.216.2]) by relay.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DacrE-0007pk-MP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:06:22 +0100 Received: from ml.scgroup.com ([192.55.122.105] helo=w2ksn) by sterling.noc-servers.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.50) id 1DacrC-0000Mb-Hk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 May 2005 13:06:18 -0400 Message-ID: <009001c56083$0eaf9f20$1101a8c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <140.449929e1.2fc47c18@aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:07:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - sterling.noc-servers.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - blacksheep.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - scgroup.com X-SPF-Result: relay.thorcom.net: 69.93.216.2 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of scgroup.com Subject: Re: LF: reception with multiple antennas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-PN-SpamFiltered: by PlusNet MXCore (v2.00) Hi Pat, > This is interesting stuff! Alan, G3NYK and I have had many discussions over > the past few years along the lines of a transmitting equivalent of this idea. > The basic premise is that it should be possible to effectively "synthesize" a > large array from generators at a number of widely spaced locations. We have > done little more than just discuss the ideas but maybe it could be an > interesting area of experimentation and development. Yes, the transmitting equivalent is a powerful idea, both literally and figuratively. While an array of four receivers could provide a maximum S/N improvement of 6 dB, four properly phased transmitters of equal power could boost the signal at a far-field target by a whopping 12 dB! Unfortunately, I haven't been able to think of a way to do this without added hardware, since it is clearly hopeless to see LORAN lines when your TX signal is in the passband. Here are a few suggestions that shouldn't take much hardware; perhaps one of them can be refined into something practical: Feed a sample of the signal from an SSB transmitter, along with 1 PPS from a GPS receiver, into a separate LF receiver. Software would analyze the output and servo the Tx audio input accordingly. During QRSS etc. key-up intervals, you would only reduce the output by, say, 20 dB, so tracking could continue. Build a simple SSB exciter by generating a ~120 kHz signal (must be reasonably stable but need not be accurate), and mixing it with ~16 kHz audio from a sound card (sample rate 48 kHz or more). The image at ~104 kHz is filtered out and the desired ~136 kHz is sent to the PA. A separate receiver, tuned to 104 kHz, can pick up lots of LORAN and the relatively weak image. Software does the rest. If you have an existing SSB transmitter that derives all frequencies from a single reference, divide that reference down to an audio frequency, and feed that into a sound card, along with output from a receiver tuned to LORAN. None of the above schemes provides absolute phase control, but it should be easy for a receiver in the neighborhood to compare the phases and determine the offsets needed. 73, Stewart KK7KA