Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19202 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2005 09:15:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ptb-spamcore01.plus.net) (192.168.71.1) by ptb-mailstore01.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2005 09:15:47 -0000 Received: from mailnull by ptb-spamcore01.plus.net with spamcore-l-b (Exim 4.32; FreeBSD) id 1CqSxg-000Md9-I8 for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:14:18 +0000 Received: from [192.168.67.3] (helo=ptb-mxcore03.plus.net) by ptb-spamcore01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim 4.32; FreeBSD) id 1CqSxg-000Md6-FT for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:14:12 +0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com ([193.82.116.20]) by ptb-mxcore03.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1CqSz6-0002Em-Ep for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:15:40 +0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1CqSwX-00088s-Vz for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:13:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.30] (helo=relay.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1CqSwX-00088j-J7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:13:01 +0000 Received: from smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.6.14]) by relay.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CqSwV-0007On-60 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:13:01 +0000 Received: from tnt-13-20.easynet.co.uk ([212.134.22.20] helo=erica) by smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 1CqSwH-000MoM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:12:45 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c4fc74$c6c32460$141686d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <41EA3B2E.152.BF48D9@localhost> <000401c4fb13$98ef8180$f8ce28c3@erica> <003501c4fc11$e6b3c080$7c3f8351@w4o8m9> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:12:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-SPF-Result: relay.thorcom.net: 212.135.6.14 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of ukonline.co.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=failed,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: SWR-off topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Filtered: by PlusNet SpamCORE (v3.00) Hi Jim and LF group > > I think the mathematical theory of transmission lines evolved with the > appearance of long-distance telegraph lines, but measuring standing waves > could only have become practical with the appearance of HF radio. In some > pre-war papers I have seen descriptions of little trolleys carrying > thermocouple ammeters that could be pulled along an open-wire line (there is > a rather vague description in Terman's "Radio Engineering") That rang a bell!. I looked through my older radio books but could't find anything in my copies of Termans. Eventually I found it in Air Publications 1093, which must have been the RAF's bible on radio engineering. The device for measuring SWR is a length of wood about 10inches long supporting a triangular loop of wire connected to a 0-120mA thermo-ampmeter. Two hooks on the top of the wood support allowed the device to be towed along the transmission line with a cord looking for minimum and maximum standing current due to missmatch. The antenna/transmission line matching is adjusted for minimum SWR. From this it would appear early measurements were ISWR not VSWR. There is a couple of pages on how to make and use this device. It also answerd a further question - why were old timers very keen to ensure balanced currents on the feeder and no one seems to bother now. The reason "...it is advisable to change the ammeter over to the other conductor to ensure the maxima and minima are in the same positions on the line.......it is hopeless to attempt to match an unbalanced line". > and I guess this is what led to Mr Smith producing his chart around the 1930s. This > really came into its own with the development of VHF, UHF and microwaves, > when bridge impedance measuring techniques became impractical and it became > possible to fit a long enough piece of transmission line on a bench top - > hence the slotted line, in coaxial and waveguide forms. With the slotted > line, you can measure complex impedances quite accurately by measuring SWR > and the position of the maxima or minima, using effectively just a piece of > transmission line with a moving probe and a diode voltmeter. Of course, the > Smith chart was the ideal device for doing the calculations in pre-computer > days, so I suppose that is the importance of the SWR scale on the chart. I will look into this one >I sometimes supervise > students doing an experiment with an ancient Rohde and Schwarz slotted line, > the main point of which is to show that standing waves exist, although the > Smith chart usually stumps them completely! Most Smith charts cover the whole universe of impedance values. It can be made far easier to use and understand by restricting the range (making the edge SWR 4 or 5:1) and using far less R and X lines. I have one which makes a simple Smith calculator - I can let you have a copy if you wish. Many thanks for your input Jim. Peter, G3LDO