Return-Path: Received: (qmail 69329 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2004 12:11:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ptb-spamcore02.plus.net) (192.168.71.3) by ptb-mailstore02.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2004 12:11:48 -0000 Received: from mailnull by ptb-spamcore02.plus.net with spamcore-l-b (Exim 4.32; FreeBSD) id 1CXexY-0004IR-7Y for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:12:27 +0000 Received: from [192.168.67.2] (helo=ptb-mxcore02.plus.net) by ptb-spamcore02.plus.net with esmtp (Exim 4.32; FreeBSD) id 1CXexX-0004IK-Bm for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:12:19 +0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com ([193.82.116.20]) by ptb-mxcore02.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1CXews-000PBP-Us for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:11:39 +0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1CXeuP-0006UW-Vi for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:09:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.30] (helo=relay.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1CXeuP-0006UN-Hm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:09:05 +0000 Received: from one.surfree.co.uk ([195.80.0.234]) by relay.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CXeuI-0003wn-Ib for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:09:05 +0000 Received: from standalone ([212.248.140.43]) by one.surfree.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11034 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:04:40 GMT Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:06:19 -0000 Message-ID: <01C4D3B0.56A0CC60.actalbot@southsurf.com> From: Andy To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:06:18 -0000 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Organization: UKNWN(UK) X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SPF-Result: relay.thorcom.net: 195.80.0.234 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of southsurf.com X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=no,RCVD_IN_SORBS=0.1,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=2.8,X_PRIORITY_HIGH=0.516 Subject: RE: LF: Linear amplifiers and MSK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=X_PRIORITY_HIGH autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Filtered: by PlusNet SpamCORE (v3.00) My comment certainly generated some replies! COFDM seems to be one of the 'flavours of the month'. It does have a lot to offer where multipath is a problem, viz. digital broadcasting over HF through to UHF and mobile comms. But it does suffer the peak to mean ratio as discussed by several contributors. When G4GUO was developing hte waveform for our digital voice experiements a few years ago, he found a paper that (as far as I can visualise) developed a way of applying a set of start up phases to each of the tones such that the peak to mean ratio was a minimum - but it was still not very power efficient. For LF, multipath is not a problem but power amplifier efficiency is. The professionals realised this years ago, hence the old GBR 16kHz transmission used originally FSK, then converted to MSK. In fact it was the nices, most 'perfect' MSK signal I have ever received off air, it was a beauty to watch it on a vector gram display. Any mode that maintains an absolutely constant amplitude and varies only the frequency or phase of the transmission will do. As MSK is such a problem to demodulate properly, perhaps we ought to steer clear of that, particularly as weak signal working is so important. A few years ago I remember making a few experiments using a scheme that has rarely been used - gradual PSK - where instead of ramping from 0 to 180 degrees directly the phase moved progressively over, say 10% of the bit period. Seem to remember trying it wirh the VE2IQ Coherent software, but not sure if this was ever over teh air, or just across a bench. Perhaps it is worth revisiting, with a soundcard implementation of PSK at, say 1 B/s and a gradual ramp. And why not include a GPS locked timing option too.. Andy G4JNT