Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8505 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2004 20:22:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ptb-spamcore02.plus.net) (192.168.71.3) by ptb-mailstore02.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2004 20:22:10 -0000 Received: from mailnull by ptb-spamcore02.plus.net with spamcore-l-b (Exim 4.32; FreeBSD) id 1CSLQe-0004gI-Ec for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:20:25 +0000 Received: from [192.168.67.1] (helo=ptb-mxcore01.plus.net) by ptb-spamcore02.plus.net with esmtp (Exim 4.32; FreeBSD) id 1CSLQe-0004gE-7O for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:20:24 +0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com ([193.82.116.20]) by ptb-mxcore01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1CSLSL-00073g-GA for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:22:09 +0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1CSLRe-0002vd-Eu for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:21:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.30] (helo=relay.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1CSLRe-0002vU-36 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:21:26 +0000 Received: from mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.187]) by relay.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CSLRY-0005ML-Cq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:21:25 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041111202111.LLWV23009.mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:21:11 +1300 Received: from quaycustomer ([210.86.80.191]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20041111202110.KZHB56.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@quaycustomer> for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:21:10 +1300 Message-ID: <000f01c4c82c$bff90220$c401a8c0@quaycustomer> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000f01c4c75e$a00d5ca0$bbab7ad5@jgtdiynm> <000a01c4c768$c69f9590$2101a8c0@AUG2004> <002f01c4c777$53083920$6507a8c0@Main> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:26:37 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-SPF-Result: relay.thorcom.net: 210.86.15.187 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of xtra.co.nz X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=no,RCVD_IN_SORBS=0.1 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Wood formers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Filtered: by PlusNet SpamCORE (v3.00) Hi all, Some interesting comments on wood and plunging Q of LF coils. It also made me think about "live wood" and that definitely does have sap. It strongly suggests that a transmitting antenna should be well clear of trees. For a vertical, the up-wire is where the current is maximum, and that situation is similar to a one turn inductor as far as magnetic induction is concerned. If the wood is also a lossy dielectric, then the top loading wires and electric fields could also be contributing to losses with trees in the antenna environment. In terms of efforts made to maximise radiated power on LF, it would be unbalanced to focus only on loading coil loss, even if that is more directly under the control of those making the coil. It would be interesting to find out for top loading that is tied off to a tree (with suitable insulation, and in a situation where there are no other practical choices for suspending the top loading) if there is an optimum spacing of the insulator from the tree. It may be better to accept moderately lower capacitance for top loading if the net losses are lower. 73, Bob ZL2CA