Return-Path: Received: (qmail 69312 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2004 14:54:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ptb-spamcore02.plus.net) (192.168.71.3) by ptb-mailstore02.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 2004 14:54:43 -0000 Received: from mailnull by ptb-spamcore02.plus.net with spamcore-l-b (Exim 4.32; FreeBSD) id 1Bo1SG-000FOy-SC for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:55:25 +0100 Received: from [192.168.67.3] (helo=ptb-mxcore03.plus.net) by ptb-spamcore02.plus.net with esmtp (Exim 4.32; FreeBSD) id 1Bo1SG-000FOb-P0 for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:55:24 +0100 Received: from post.thorcom.com ([193.82.116.20]) by ptb-mxcore03.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1Bo1RY-0002B2-FU for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:54:40 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Bo1R7-0005bF-DD for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:54:13 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.30] (helo=relay.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Bo1R7-0005b6-0M for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:54:13 +0100 Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by relay.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Bo1R3-0006zp-5J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:54:12 +0100 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2004 07:56:12 -0700 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i6NErxIV025877 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from g3ysx.org.uk (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp369.cisco.com [10.61.65.113]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00220 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:53:57 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <41012684.5030501@g3ysx.org.uk> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:53:56 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01C470B0.228BAA70.actalbot@southsurf.com> In-Reply-To: <01C470B0.228BAA70.actalbot@southsurf.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=no,RATWR10_MESSID=0.111 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Loops v Verticals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Filtered: by PlusNet SpamCORE (v3.00) Andy wrote: >Well... >That may not always be the case. > >If experimentation disagrees with theory you need to check that everything is >accounted for, before assuming the theory is wrong and reworking it. > >It is too easy to overlook some seemingly trivial little thing or ignore the >seemingly obvious. > >Like baluns on antenna measurements - just as an example. > Andy You are correct to point out that the experiment must be conducted competently and be reproducable before modifying the theory. However anomolous results can also be of interest. For example, it is not uncommon for researchers to sweep minor, irritating, results under the table. I recall as an undergraduate being taught quantum mechanics by Jocelyn Bell, and I remember it being impressed on us how easily she might have dismissed the anomalous LGM traces as being EMC from a passing police car - certainly that would have been a view readily accepted by the rest of here department. As you probably know she noticed that the "police car" got 4 mins earler each day* and persued the results to discover Pulsars. * A cynic might say that since the probability of police being early is absurd, one could conclude that it was Little Green Men without further investigation :) >I've often found that theory based on back of envelope calculations, made from >first principles, has this annoying habit of often being surprisingly accurate. > > None the less it is always wise to challenge and probe conventional wisdom, and although the instances of it being wrong are rare, I have personal experience (in computer networking) where ignoring such wisdom yeilded important results. 73 Stewart G3YSX >Andy 'JNT > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Stewart Bryant [SMTP:stewart@g3ysx.org.uk] >Sent: 2004/07/23 09:12 >To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >Subject: Re: LF: Re: Loops v Verticals > > > >Quite right. Experimental evidence is the only way to resolve the issue. > >If the experiment agrees with theory, then that is good. If it does not, >then it is the theory that needs to be extended or abandoned. > >- Stewart G3YSX > > > > > >