Return-Path: Received: (qmail 99332 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2004 15:14:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ptb-mxscan01.plus.net) (212.159.14.235) by ptb-mailstore01.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2004 15:14:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 63508 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2004 15:14:13 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Filtered-by: Plusnet (hmail v1.01) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Spam-detection-level: 11 Received: from ptb-mxcore01.plus.net (212.159.14.215) by ptb-mxscan01.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2004 15:14:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com ([193.82.116.20]) by ptb-mxcore01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1Aib6Q-000GIg-MX for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:14:10 +0000 X-Fake-Domain: majordom Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Aib6I-0004ze-UV for rs_out@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:14:02 +0000 Received: from [192.108.125.11] (helo=alpha.sbs.sk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Aib6I-0004zV-CZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:14:02 +0000 Received: from hermes.sbs.sk (hermes.sbs.sk [192.108.125.51]) by alpha.sbs.sk (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7DFE45D6 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:14:01 +0100 (CET) X-Fake-Domain: btss005a.sbs.sk Received: from btss005a.sbs.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.180]) by hermes.sbs.sk (8.12.6/8.12.6/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id i0JFE0Rk011029 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:14:00 +0100 Received: by btss.siemens-pse.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:14:00 +0100 X-Bad-Message-ID: no DNS (btss.siemens-pse.sk) Message-ID: From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:13:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: LF: Test failed... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-PN-SPAMFiltered: yes X-Spam-Rating: 2 Hi Rik and others... After I discuss this problems with Bob OK2BVG and we found the problem. The tower itsefs is DC isolated, but...on the tower are 4 lihgts (2x in 70m and 2x in 135m) powered by 410m of twisted-pair cable. So, this is total 820m of wire well cupled with the antenna. This antenna has been on air for about 20 year on the frequency 1097kHz. The filters are designed for this frequency and have a very low reactance on 136kHz. Any idea? 73 de Rich OM2TW -----Original Message----- From: Rik Strobbe [mailto:rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 2:58 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Test failed... Hello Rich, According to MMAMA the antenna capacitance should be something like 2.7nF, thus a loadingcoil of +/- 500uH would be needed. I assume that at least one of the variometers covered this range. It is a wild guess, but maybe the power is "DC grounded" using a coil from the antenna base to ground. If this coil is dimensioned for a much higher frequency (MF) it can cause rather strange effects on LF. Eg. : Assume the original use of the tower was a lambda/4 antenna at MF, for a 135 m tower that would be +/- 550 kHz. Antenna impedance (at 550kHz) would be +/- 36 Ohm, so "good engineering" would require a DC path to ground (for safety) with a Z of at least 10 times the antenna impedance = 360 Ohm. At 550 kHz this would mean a +/- 100 uH inductor. So, instead of seeing the antenna as a 2.7nF capacitor to ground it should be seen as a L-C parallel circuit (100 uH // 2.7 nF). Or in terms of reactances (at 136 kHz) : +j85 Ohm // -j433 Ohm = +j106 Ohm (= +/- 124 uH at 136 kHz). To get the antenna tuned (brought to resonance) you would need a series capacitor (not inductor !) with a reactance of -j106 Ohm at 136 kHz = +/- 11 nF. This kind of tuning will also cause impedance transformation : If the resistive component (radiation resistance + loss) is 20 Ohm it will be transformed to 1.2 Ohm and the "system Q" will rise from 22 to 108 (making tuning rather critical). 73, Rik ON7YD >We will try tu tune the antenna with your help, if anybody can help me. >I'll be very happy. >I'll give you all necessary datas: > >Vertical is 135m high with 170cm in diameter (no cap hat), there are 120 >radials in range from the base and 50m, after that are 240 radials between >range 50-130m. Each radial is from 6mm Cu wire about 30cm under the ground >level. Ground conductivity is 14,3mS.