Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28095 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 15:11:07 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 15:11:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 29832 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2003 15:10:49 -0000 X-Filtered-by: Plusnet (hmail v1.01) X-Spam-detection-level: 11 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Sep 2003 15:08:35 -0000 X-Fake-Domain: majordom Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 19xowg-0005J1-1X for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:30:46 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 19xowa-0005Ir-Up for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:30:41 +0100 X-Fake-Domain: gemini Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 19xow2-00069T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:30:06 +0100 X-No-DNS-For: 147.197.232.252 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch15) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19xow2-0006l8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:30:06 +0100 From: "James Moritz" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:30:06 +0100 Organization: University of Hertfordshire X-Bad-Message-ID: no DNS (rsch15) Message-ID: <000001c3793a$5d068bc0$fce8c593@rsch15> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3F6181A9.30807@virgin.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-UH-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: LF: RE: Inverted tube amplifier Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,ORIGINAL_MESSAGEversion=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Rating: 2 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant Sent: 12 September 2003 09:20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Inverted tube amplifier I came across an interesting concept yesterday that I thought worthy of further consideration for an LF active antenna. The so called inverted vacuum tube amplifier... Dear Stewart, LF Group, >From what I could figure out over lunch - As well as reducing the value of mu, the value of transconductance gm will also be reduced by a factor equal to the "normal" mu of the valve. For a preamp, this has serious consequences for the noise. The noise voltage referred to the input of a triode is proportional to the square root of the "effective noise resistance"; as I recall, the ENR of a triode is approximated by about 2/gm. Therefore, low gm will result in high noise, as well as low gain - or if you prefer, the same noise but less signal at the output compared to normal operation. The linearity is good because a given signal input only drives the valve over a small part of the characteristic curve due to the large bias voltage and small gain - but this leaves you back at square one, because you then need to follow this input stage with enough gain to bring the signal level up sufficiently to drive the receiver, while maintaining linearity. If you could make an amplifier which would do this satisfactorily, you could just replace the "inverted tube" stage with an attenuator, with the advantage of lower noise, and even better linearity. The low gain and noise could be overcome by increasing the size of the antenna, but the increased input would then increase the distortion products again, cancelling the linearity advantage. It is certainly an interesting circuit, if for no other reason than it enables useful output from the valve with extremely low supply voltage, thus allowing a low-impedance load to be driven relatively efficiently, as in the audio amp at the URL you gave - but I think the low gain negates any advantage as a preamp. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU