Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26492 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2003 11:43:14 -0000 Received: from netmail02.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.221) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 11:43:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 19286 invoked by uid 10001); 21 Jun 2003 11:43:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail02.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 2003 11:43:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 19Tgkd-0002ke-CJ for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:41:47 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 19TgkZ-0002kV-JA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:41:43 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 19TgkQ-0000xF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:41:34 +0100 Received: from HA-2N83-PC.herts.ac.uk (HA-2N83-PC.herts.ac.uk [147.197.182.199]) by gemini.herts.ac.uk (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h5LBfWN07404 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:41:32 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:41:31 +0100 From: "james moritz" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <3932304313.1056199291@HA-2N83-PC.herts.ac.uk> In-reply-to: <001001c337cd$618d9d40$f0d0fc3e@l8p8y6> Originator-Info: login-id=mj9ar; server=Gemini X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [1.4.4, s/n S-398075] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: BEACONS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXTversion=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Dear Mal, LF Group, --On 21 June 2003, 09:15 +0100 hamilton mal wrote:r > Recently 137.770 freq area has been a complete shambles with several > transmissions simultaneously in beacon mode all at 60 sec dot length and > very close together generating other frequencies, resulting in > considerable frequency spread. I imagine there could be difficulties > even at a distanct location trying to resolve and identify anyone in the > mess. 73 de Mal/G3KEV Several stations very close together is of course what we are trying to do - it would make life more difficult for Laurence in Ghana if we were distributed widely all over the band Looking for a weak QRSS signal in an otherwise unoccupied part of the band is easy - almost any adjustment of the RX gain will work, provided the receiver noise remains below the band noise band noise . But receiving multiple QRSS signals with widely different strengths requires a more careful approach. Remember that the filtering that defines the RX bandwidth does not take place until the signal is inside the computer, so as well as the normal intermods in the front end, one must also be concerned about distortion occuring in the IF, product detector and audio stages of the receiver, and the sound card - this is what gives rise to the intermod products you were seeing on the spectrogram. Few if any receivers are designed with this mode of operation in mind, so some optimisation of gain distribution is required. The procedure I use is like this: -Ensure AGC is completely disabled -Adjust RF/IF gain level so that the output level produced by the strongest signal is well below the level at which the RX output starts clipping -Adjust the audio level so that the AF output is undistorted, and that the sound card is not saturated by the strong signals. This will probably end up with much lower gain settings than you usually use - certainly, if intemods appear on the spectrogram, or blocking effects where the strong signals darken the rest of the display, the gain is too high at some point. The fact that you can no longer hear the weaker signals or the band noise in the RX audio is not a problem - the spectrogram software can still pick them out. It also helps to reduce the contrast of the spectrogram display compared to what you would usually use, to accommodate a wider range of signal levels. Sometimes, it also helps to reduce the frequency resolution of the spectrogram - eg. use Argo in 30s mode rather than 60s - this has the effect of making the "key clicks" on the strong signals narrower, so they obscure less of the weak signals . Spectrum Lab is more flexible in regard to the settings you can use than Argo is for this type of operation, allthough it is more complicated to set up. Observing these precautions, I have had no problem copying CT1DRP and RN6BN in the presence of other UK stations over the last few nights - all the signals were quite clean, so your "frequency spreading" problem is definitely at the RX end. During previous T/A tests, it was not difficult to copy the DL, I, etc stations in the presence of several big signals from the UK that were 50 - 60dB stronger. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU