Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8026 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2003 08:27:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Apr 2003 08:27:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19965 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2003 08:27:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2003 08:27:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 19A3y1-0005Fw-9f for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:26:29 +0100 Received: from [192.5.29.49] (helo=relay.dstl.gov.uk) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.14) id 19A3xw-0005Fm-EJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:26:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 27777 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2003 09:26:21 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO warlock.dstl.gov.uk) (192.5.29.10) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 2003 09:26:21 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D01A9F1B0@mail.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "Tottingham Brian J" , Linda_Holtby@ntlworld.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:24:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: LF: RE: A conumdrum for the weekend - Image Cancelling Mixer. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=noneversion=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false We thrashed out this solution on Friday afternoon, it explains why the maths appears to fail but the concept doesn't. Judging by relies on Friday evening and Saturday, several readers of the reflecter were getting there, but a lot of red-herrings were also appearing. The ambiguity arises here. In the second configuration (repeated below), the one that appears to fail in the way I described it, the output from the top mixer is SIN(A+B) - SIN(A-B) But we know that SIN(-X) = -SIN(X)since the Sine function has odd order symmetry, so the mixer output can justifiably be written as : SIN(A+B) + SIN(B-A) Then after the phase shift we have COS(A+B) + COS(B-A) Now, we also know that COS(-X) = COS(X) The function has Even symmetry, so it is now perfectly valid to write the output as : COS(A+B) + COS(A-B) Which, by addition or subtraction with the other path, cancels one of the sidebands while reinforcing the other as expected. For once it is the maths that causes the problem, not the concept. There were quite a few comments from readers along the lines of "broadbancd phase shifters" to cope with both sideband frequencies. But this wasn't really an issue. In some cases it is the input frequency sideband that is being cancelled - which needs a bit of mental agility to think though these two designs backwards, noting the two input terms that give the same output term in any mixer. Where image cancelling mixers are used in practice these days is in digital receivers where the IF is at a very low frequency, like baseband to DC. The 90 degree phase shift is then just an inherent part of the DSP process, although diagrams showing how the systems work often show a physical phase shift at this point. In real analogue hardware, such as the radar receiver block diagram that generated this problem, the phase shifters are usually placed in the most convenient position - usually where the relative bandwidth is at its narrowest such as the RF and LO ports on a downconverting superhet receiver, with the IF output being summed. BUT on the matching transmitter just reversing the signal flow, the non-phase shifted channel now becomes one of the inputs, mixed with the LO to form the RF output signal. So the two configurations in the condrum become receiver and transmitter respectively in a classic single conversion design. In the radar receiver however, a different situation arises. As it has to cover a wide tuneable Rf input range of 6 - 18GHz a broadband phase shifter here is impractical. The tuneable must LO has to have one, and this is just a case of designing the LO with a bank of suitable phase shifters. The IF at a VHF frequency is a few tens of MHz wide and a 90 degree phase shift network at these freqeuncies is straightforward. Andy G4JNT ========================================================= NOW, if we move the second 90 degree phase shift to the output of the mixers (the IF) rather than the LO, as shown below, intuition and common sense tells us it should still work since the mixing process is fully reversible and actual direction of signal flow is irrelevant. Furthermore, many real designs of SSB exciters and receivers prove this really does work in practice. ---90---X----90----| Signal -| | +/- IF ------------X------| | | | - | | Local Osc. But here is the conumdrum : Keeping the same terminology of Signal = SIN(A), and LO = SIN(B), the inputs to the top mixer become COS(A) . SIN(B) and the output given by the product rule : COS(A).SIN(B) = SIN(A+B) - SIN(A-B) After the output 90 degree phase shift, the SIN terms beocome COS so we have, in the top output leg : COS(A+B) - COS(A-B) The output from the bottom mixer is, as before : SIN(A).SIN(B) = COS(A-B) - COS(A+B) Which is the SAME as in the top leg, and will either cancel or reinforce both sidebands. So it doesn't appear to work at all ! Moving the output 90 degree shift to the lower leg still fails to cancel one sideband only. So where is the conundrum? Both forms of image cancelling mixer do indeed work, and the trig identities can be taken from any reference. ================================================== PS. I do have one rather weak explanation, but it doesn't give that warm cozy feeling expected when theory falls into place! Andy "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, or rely upon this e-mail. 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