Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28184 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2002 23:37:20 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Dec 2002 23:37:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 23320 invoked by uid 10001); 17 Dec 2002 23:37:18 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Dec 2002 23:37:18 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ORGO-00065B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:36:36 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.93] (helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ORGN-000652-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:36:35 +0000 Received: from host213-1-190-104.btinternet.com ([213.1.190.104] helo=main) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18ORGL-0001St-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:36:34 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c2a625$092c63a0$68be01d5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:08:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Ground resistiivty and loss resistance Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_PAST_06_12,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group The discussion continues to produce interesting ideas. At the risk of boring some I would like to throw in some more information. Ground resistivity is usually measured with a 4 probe technique. ( I used a similar method for exploring silicon ingot doping, and hence resistivity, also diffused layers, when I started work on transistors in the early 60s.) The measurement is based on the classic Kelvin bridge technique for measurring low value resistors (my first lab experiment at University) low value 'shunt' resistors with 4 terminals are often refered to as having Kelvin contacts. The connection is used to avoid the affect of contact resistance if only two terminals were used. The resistance value seen would be the required value plus two variable terminal contact resistances. This is avoided by passing the measuring current through one or a pair of terminals at each end, and measuring the voltage drop across the other pair. Provided there is very little current drawn by the "voltmeter" the contact resistance at the voltage terminals will not significantly corrupt the true measurement. The 4 probe ground resistivity measurement works similarly. A potential is applied to drive a current between the outer probes and the voltage is measured on the inner pair. Contact resistance is a major problem with this kind of soil measurement and this technique avoids it nicely. Polarisation with DC can still be a problem hence the use of either a reversing switch or more often mains frequency current is common. Strangely enough the penetration of the probes is not really important although it affects the calculation if the penetration is of the same order as the spacing of the probes. (For the archeologists see the probe length and spacing on the things being heaved around by Time Team's geophys experts.....UK TV) The more important factor is the probe spacing as one may consider that the reading is influenced by the ground to approximately the same depth as the spacing used (so surface contact is adequate). Some measurements have been made with spacing of many kilometers. My AVO test leads would be a pushed at that distance !! Remember that the ground penetration at 136kHz can be between 5 and 20 metres. John G3PAI and the "cavemen" work through 100s of metres at 87kHz. Although ground resistivity obviously correlates in some way with our aerial loss resistance it is not anything we can do much about. Most of us are stuck with the ground we choose, usually for other than amateur radio reasons, to live on. The important factor is to try to reduce the "ground" loss (which includes environmental factors) as much as possible. Because there are so wide a variation of situations it really is not possible to give anything more than rough guidelines for use at any one site. I can only suggest measuring it and trying different approaches to see which gives the best returns on effort. I suggest measuring an unresonated aerial since it avoids a having too many variables. You can also easily measure it over a range of frequencies. This can be important because occasionally deviations from the expected resistance frequency curve are seen and sometimes these can be related to problems unknown to us and outside out control. One might be a resonant length of mains cable to an outbuilding, of from a supply transformer. I think you will soon find that there is little to be gained in most places by using multiple earth stakes, and you can soon reach a optimum on conterpoise installation. Then the remaining and to my mind most fruitful area is to increase the aerial top-load capacity. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com