Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18092 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2002 18:03:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Jul 2002 18:03:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5628 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2002 18:03:21 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 2002 18:03:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17XQOU-0001KI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:57:50 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17XQOT-0001KD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:57:49 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17XQOT-0004ev-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:57:49 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17XQOS-0004wb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:57:48 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020724171432.00a84530@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:57:37 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: DL2NDO/P In-reply-to: <000c01c23323$0adfb460$95e8fc3e@l8p8y6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mal, LF Group At 16:01 24/07/2002 +0100, you wrote: >For those that like figures and data to speculate, invent or guess erp >emitted by others on LF, I measured the signal today from DL2NDO/P and >other associated callsigns used at various times. >on 136.5 khz. > >Level meter SPM-12 (calibrated) Time 1020 utc > >Signal level -50 db >Noise floor -90db >Signal above noise -40 db > OK then - the problem here is that these are only relative measurements, so it is not possible to derrive field strength or ERP from them. But we can estimate a value for the field strength of DL2NDO/P at your QTH using the previously determined ERP of around 160W. At a range of 845km, and using G4FGQ's software with "type 4" ground again, this comes to 31dBuV/m. This gives us the basis of a rough calibration for your antenna/receiver. The bearing from your QTH to Donnebach is about 125degrees, while your ant has maximum pick-up on 0/180 degrees, so the effective signal level is reduced by a factor of 20 log[cos(180-125)], which is -4.8 dB. Therefore, if your antenna were aligned on Donnebach, you would get a signal level of -45.2dB. This makes the "antenna factor" (31+45.2) = 76.2dB. Then, to measure the field strength of other signals, you will have to calculate a further factor of -20log(cos [theta]), where the angle theta is the difference in bearing between the source of the signal,and the maximum of the antenna, to compensate for the signal and antenna not being aligned (one reason why it is handy to be able to turn a loop!). Add this factor plus the antenna factor to the signal level reading to get field strength in dBuV/m - eg: -50dB (sig level) +4.8dB (bearing correction) + 76.2dB (antenna factor) = 31dBuV/m -Back to were we started. This is only a very rough calibration of course, since it is very indirect with many sources of error, but it gives you a reasonable idea, so better than speculating, guessing and inventing. You can do a similar calculation with DCF39 to check. Of course, changing the tuning, input impedance, antenna etc will need a re-calibration. Using these figures, your noise floor works out to -13.8dBuV/m in 25Hz, or about -3dBuV/m in 300Hz, which is quite similar to what I get here under good conditions. You could also do a similar calculation using SpecLab to calibrate the signal level - here you have to take care not to adjust the RX gain (and keep the AGC turned off) between calibrating and measuring. To interpret the noise level you would have to take the bandwidth/resolution settings into account. .....No attempt here to interpret or calculate voltage at rx input.... This depends on how you have set up the SPM12 - if you have set it to read dBu, then the reading is in decibels relative to 0.775V, so is a direct measurement of voltage anyway. If set to dBm, then it is measuring input power, and you would have to take into account the input impedance to get the input voltage. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU