Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1085 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2002 17:29:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2002 17:29:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3276 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2002 14:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2002 14:20:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 172DSO-0007qm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:52:52 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 172DSN-0007qh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:52:51 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 172BvS-0007Zt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:14:46 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 172BvR-0001KY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:14:45 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020429130009.00a7ca10@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:16:18 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: RE: LF: Jason reception - Mains noise In-reply-to: References: <002701c1ee0e$362c24a0$19676ec3@cestag> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, At my QTH I find there are basically 2 types of "mains" LF QRM - The first type seems to be harmonics of the mains frequency, and originating from phase-controlled devices like dimmers and motor speed controls, and also discharge lamps. If you look at the waveforms in these devices, they have sharp spikes and ringing at each switching transition, so the harmonic amplitude only rolls off slowly with increasing frequency, giving a fairly uniform spectrum over a wide bandwidth. The second type are things like SMPSUs, which have a "carrier" and harmonics of the switching frequency, with superimposed modulation at multiples of 50Hz giving wide sidebands. Tuning around, you can often identify the "carrier" - I currently have one quite close to 70kHz, with a harmonic at 140kHz. The mechanism of the mains frequency modulation of the witching frequency seems to lie with the bridge rectifiers on the mains input. The rectifier diodes only conduct on the peaks of the mains waveform, and so act like diode switches, switching on and off at 50Hz, modulating the higher frequency noise currents flowing down the mains cable. Most of the noise seems to get from appliance to antenna via mains or other wiring, and certainly seems to be more of an "H field" mode produced by inductive coupling between loops of conductor and the antenna - I find that loops invariably give poor results for this reason if they are near the building, but once moved several metres away the noise level is much lower. The noise seems to be able to propagate a long way down the cable at LF, so mains noise can be high even down the road far away from buildings, if there is a mains cable nearby. Using a ferrite rod antenna as a probe, and a battery operated RX there is plenty of noise on the mains cables of my house, even when the power is switched off completely, presumably coming from the rest of the neighborhood. In the UK at least, there do not seem to be regulatory limits on conducted EMI for frequencies below 150kHz, so there is no particular incentive for designers to reduce LF noise going down mains cables. For the same reason, mains filters often do not give much attenuation at LF. At my QTH, the mains noise sometimes shows up as discrete spectral lines at 50 or 100Hz intervals, however, much of the time allthough you can hear a strong mains buzz in the noise, it just appears as a fairly uniform, wide band mush on a spectrogram. It is more instructive to look at this kind of noise at the receiver IF output in the time domain, preferably with a fairly wide bandwidth, using a scope triggered from the "line" frequency. Several peaks can be seen, some of which are synchronised with the mains waveform, while others move back and forth on the trace. The amplitude of the peaks seems to vary rapidly in a random sort of way. When I was having severe noise problems a couple of months ago, I considered the noise blanker type schemes that have been suggested, but since there are several (8 or more) noise impulses in each mains cycle, and some of them have continuously changing phase, this did not seem to be feasible in my case. It would seem to be hard to filter this type of noise out of the received signal - even when there are discrete spectral lines, they are usually drifting quite fast. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU