Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3435 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 09:19:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 09:19:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9840 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 09:19:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 09:19:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1666x2-000649-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:12:20 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1666x0-000644-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:12:18 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA126964 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:11:34 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011120100913.2c1f42ee@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:09:13 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RF AMPS In-reply-to: <3BF948A4.B55BE2CB@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Mal & group, >Some LF operators are indicating that they are getting large RF amperage >into their loading coil/antennas systems for very low power output to >the antenna ie a few 100 watts. The current you can push through your antenna system depends on the loss resistance you encounter. And this is more than just the ground loss. There is also the loss in the loadingcoil and in many cases also a considerable loss in the 'environement' ie. objects such as trees and buildings near the antenna. Up to a certain level one can reduce the losses, by using a high-Q loadingcoil and a good groundsystem (radials and earthpoles). The loss resistance (on 136kHz) can go from a few Ohm (on a metal vessel at sea) over a few tens Ohm (good conducting ground) to a few hundred Ohm (poor soil, many obstacles near the antenna). So this means that for 200W output power the antenna current can go from 10A (ie. on a metal vessel at sea) down to 1A (poor soil, many obstacles). >From what I have read on this reflector the loss resistance for 'amateur antenna systems' goes from 20 Ohm up to 150 Ohm. >I am trying to figure out what procedure they are using to measure the >rf amps and where all the rf is going because the signals heard on LF >are low to average around the UK and in EU. Antenna current is only one thing that determines your ERP, the other thing is the radiation resistance of the antenna. For a 'pure vertical' (no toploading) the rad. res. on 136kHz (in milli-Ohm) = 0.08 x h^2 (h = antenna height in m). Toploading can quadruple the rad. res. (in you ave infinite toploading), in practical cases toploading will double ... triple the rad. res. >My system is designed for 50 ohms throughout and matched accordingly at >the base of the antenna via a coil with max of 400 microH. Since the resistance you measure is for 99% (or more) the loss resistance I would recommend to design the antenna for least resistance and match it to 50 Ohm using a transformer of L-C circuit. >Maybe most are heating up the ground around the antenna, and the loading >coil ,whereas my couple of amps are being radiated by the antenna. Sorry to have to dissapoint you, but I'm afraid that also you use over 99% of your power to heat the coil and soil. Even with a really big antenna (lets' say 40m high and well toploaded) the rad. res. will not exceed a few hundred milli-Ohms will you loss resistance most likely will be in the range of several tens of ohms. A wild gues would be a rad. res of 0.3 Ohm and a loss of 50 Ohm, meaning that only 0.6% of the power is radiated (and thus 99.4% is heated). But with the antenna system described here and a 400W TX (= 2.8A antennacurrent) the ERP would be 4.4W, well exceeding CEPT limits ... to stick to 1W ERP the TX power should be limited to 90W. >Maybe someone knows the answer. The above is only my limited knowledge 73, Rik