Message-ID: <001201c15d67$84efb080$7594153e@w8k3f0>
From: "Dick Rollema" <d.w.rollema@freeler.nl>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <Chameleon.1004004689.Girardi@tlvk7v>
Subject: LF: Re: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:08:31 +0200
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To All from PA0SE

Dear OM,

Of my loading coil about 1/5 is shortcircuited. Leaving it open makes no
difference in aerial current.
There could be some difference in coil losses of course but the effect of
this is diluted by the much larger earth resistance in series. Measuring Q,
as Rik did, could show a difference, if any.

73, Dick, PA0SE

----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: Claudio Girardi <in3otd@qsl.net>
Aan: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verzonden: donderdag 25 oktober 2001 9:46
Onderwerp: LF: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns


> In an attempt to gain some insight on the
> behaviour of coils with shorted turns I tried
> the mathematical way and this is what I found
> (hope it is correct...):
>
> Said
> L1 = inductance of the first inductor, R1 = its series resistance
(losses),
> L2 = inductance of the second inductor, R2 = its series resistance
> k = coefficient of coupling between the two,
> (L1 and L2 can be two parts of the same coil or can be two distinct
> coils, it doesn't matter)
> when the second inductor is shorted the inductance
> seen at the terminals of the first is
>
> L1s = L1 * (1 - k^2)
>
> and the losses
>
> R1s = R1 + k^2 * (L1 / L2) * R2
>
> ...well, I'm not sure abot what can be inferred from these formulas,
> but it seems that the losses will surely increase (and the inductance
> obviously will go down) so the Q will be lower with the turns shorted.
> How much lower depends (strangely enough, hi) on the amount of turns
> shorted (L2, R2) and on the coefficient of coupling between the coils
> (coils or turns spacing). This doesn't take into account any variation
> in losses due to different proximity effects / distributed capacitance
> with the second coil shorted.
>
> By the way this suggest a (well known) method to measure the coupling
> of two high Q coils: measure the inductance of the first coil (i.e. L1)
> then short the second coil and measure the inductance at the terminal
> of the first coil (i.e. L1s), then the coefficient of coupling
> k is the square root of (1 - L1s / L1)
>
> Hope this helps...
>
>                        73 de IN3OTD, Claudio
> --
> in3otd@qsl.net                  http://www.qsl.net/in3otd/
>
> Peter wrote:
> > Yes. If you look at the coil design by Dick, PA0SE on the front cover of
> > LFEH he uses taps every 10 turns at one end of the coil and a tap every
> > single turn at the other thereby having an incremental one tap per turn
for
> > over the whole coil length. See the description of an earlier version on
> > page 62. Dick shorts out the unused turns.
> >
> > Another method is to use the G3YMC coupled bucket variable coil. (I like
> > this idea of Dave's).  I have used this method using coupled bins on
73kHz.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Peter, G3LDO
> >
> > e-mail <g3ldo@ukonline.co.uk>
> >
> > Web <http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g3ldo>
>
>