Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10597 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 18:13:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 18:13:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 17263 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 18:13:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 18:13:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SMpV-0007Dk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:04:17 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kauha.saunalahti.fi ([195.197.53.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SMpU-0007DZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:04:16 +0100 Received: from lizard (DVIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.74.4.208]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f72I1Pk15662 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:01:25 +0300 (EEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:01:25 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <200108021801.f72I1Pk15662@kauha.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: keinanen@pop.sci.fi X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Paul Keindnen" Subject: Decimation (Was: Re: LF: LF Receivers) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >The BFO at 456kHz is derived by extracting the 57th harmonic of the 10MHz >divided down to 8kHz. This was actually extremely simple and the most >satisfying part of the breadboarding process to get going !. Very interesting design ! However, looking at the large number of odd frequencies required and also looking at other suggestions of generating these or similar frequencies using DDS etc., I just wondered, if the reception could be simplified by sampling directly the input frequency. In this way, only a single accurate frequency (the sampling clock) would be required. Of course, sampling at or above 300 kHz ( to satisfy the Nyquist criterion) is out of the question, due to the availability of such high sampling rate ADCs and the huge dynamic range required and also the huge processing power required. However, if the input signal is decimated (undersampled) at some convinient sampling rate (say 6 kHz), the raw data rate would be managable. This will create a large number of images falling on the passband, but if the input spectrum is band limited (say 250 .. 2100 Hz bandwidth), only a single image is produced. Making such LC filters with sufficient stop band attenuation outside the passband would be very hard at 136 kHz and making crystal filters for such low frequencies would also be problematic. How about applying the wave analyzer principle, ie. using a VFO to mix _up_ the input passband to any convinient filter frequency (such as 455 kHz, 3.57, 9.0, 10.7 MHz). After running the signal through a suitable crystal filter, it is mixed _down_ to the original (RF) frequency using the _same_ VFO. Thus, any frequency error created by the VFO is canceled. The long term VFO (or VCXO) frequency stability needs only be better than the crystal frequency bandwidth and since there is a propagation delay (in the order of 1 ms) through the narrow band filter, the VFO short term (1 ms) stability must be quite good in order to avoid generating any frequency errors, thus, a good phase noise performance is required. When the VFO is tuned, the very narrow crystal filter bandwidth moves around the input (and output) RF frequency band, effectively creating a tunable front end filter, with, say 250 Hz bandwidth. When this signal is sampled at some low frequency, some alias (image) will fall somewhere in the audio passband (possibly with an inverted spectrum). The digital signal could then be multiplied within a processor with a LO signal generated by a software NCO (Numerically Controlled Oscillator) to generate very low frequency I and Q signals. Normally NCO/DDS constructions use sin(x) tables with sizes that are powers of 2 (256, 4096 etc.), which is addressed simply by truncating some bits from the NCO phase accumulator. If the processor has a fast divide/modulo instruction, any convinient sin(x) table, such as 1000 element (0..999) table could be used, thus, nice frequency steps could be generated even if the sample rate is some nice number, such as 6 or 12 kHz :-). These are just not random ideas that have not been tested in practice, but I hope these inspire others to think about non-conventional ways of receiving LF signals. Paul OH3LWR