Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14041 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 22:23:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 22:23:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 1454 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 22:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 22:23:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SnGa-0005Lp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:18:00 +0100 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SnGW-0005Lk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:17:56 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.84.232]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010803221715.BSGR29419.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:17:15 +0200 Message-ID: <000601c11c61$bf0b9fa0$e85497d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Harmonic sampling (Was: Decimation) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:17:11 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Paul, your thoughts about an undersampling LF receiver are very interesting! The "tunable crystal filter" solves the problem with multiple alias passbands associated with undersampling but there are other problems that may be harder to solve - sampling aperture time and aperture jitter. Perhaps quantization noise will be a problem too (due to the low Fs ), I don't know... Anyway, the undersampling idea is very interesting. The aperture time has to be very small compared to the period of the input frequency of interest. Many A/D converters, including those integrated on many microcontrollers, will easily run at Fs=6kHz but the aperture time / acquisition time is far greater than a fraction of a 136kHz cycle. Some kind of a fast sample-and-hold circuit has to be inserted before the ADC. >Of course, sampling at or above 300 kHz (to satisfy the Nyquist criterion) >is out of the question, due to the availability of such high sampling rate >ADCs and the huge dynamic range required and also the huge processing power >required. Not necessarily out of the question.. Hardware decimation chips *are* available. One example is Intersil (formerly Harris) HSP50016 which has a 16-bit parallel input capable of >50 MSPS. It has a half-complex mixer and a quadrature NCO that produce an I/Q signal which can be decimated by a programmable factor down to 1/64K of the input Fs! Decimation filters are on-chip (working in the digital domain of course). The output is serial and a lot of formats can be selected, including a real (single-wire) signal in "Weaver/3rd method" mode. A simple RX using this chip was described by KC1HR in QEX September 1997. A suitable ADC for this kind of RX is Analog Devices AD9260. This is a 16-bit ADC with input BW = 1 MHz. It is "oversampling" at 20MSPS and contains a Fs/8 decimation filter on-chip. With 20MHz clock, the output Fs is 2.5 MHz which can be used as clock for the HSP50016. No "nice numbers" though, the NCO in the HSP50016 is a "power-of-two" thing... :-) 73 Johan SM6LKM