Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5905 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 08:54:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 08:54:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 12342 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 08:53:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 08:53:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OxlH-0007hJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:41:51 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OxlF-0007hE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:41:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 23278 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 09:39:14 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 09:39:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16696 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 09:43:08 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 24 Jul 2001 08:42:46 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA22236; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:46:50 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 24348 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 09:32:48 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 09:32:48 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA07113; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:21:04 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma007097; Tue, 24 Jul 01 09:20:42 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:40:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 23037 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 08:29:34 +0100 Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 07:29:34 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:29:30 +0100 Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:39:28 +0100 Date: 24 Jul 2001 09:39:27 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C563@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Amateur VLF DX MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > The "earth loop" antennas have their adherents, and seem > appealing because of the potentially large size possible. > > The simple radiation resistance formulae suggest that loops > should always lose out compared to verticals as the frequency > decreases (Rrad proportional to f^2 for a vertical, f^4 for a > loop), although any real situation is likely to be more > complex than this. Do any measurements of efficiency for this > type of antenna exist? > My feeling that ground loops may work out a lot better than may be first thought at VLF is based on several factors : The US submarine service uses them for ELF / ULF - at 60 to a few 100 Hz - and I always look first to what others have done before in the professional field. They usually get things mostly correct and saves reinventing wheels each time. The skin depth of soil at 9kHz varies from 28m in rich (high conductivity) pastoral soil to 90m is sand / rock, meaning that the vertical dimension of the loop becomes quite large. There is no problem whatsoever matching low frequencies to the inductive or resistive loads that a ground loop will present - it is the need for large inductors and high voltages that is the real killer (in all senses !) for wire antennas at these freqs. All that is needed is a lot of wire trailed out over the ground for a long distance. The 1/F^2 for E field vs 1/F^4 for loops works against us as antennas get small, but does mean that as the amount of copper goes up, the efficiency rises, to a simple approximation, as the fourth power of length so small improvements to antennas should give more dramatic results. My copper water pipe loop for 73kHz in its early days (2 turns of 10mm diamter pipe, 3m overall diameter), was only 10dB down on the 7m high tee so and much simpler to match to. The high circulating currents in the matching capacitors can be simply catered for by using banks of parallel capactitors in parallel. The water pipe antenna had 40A current in it and using 30 x 3.3nF 1700V caps in parallel they just got slightly warm at 200W G2AJV had considerable success on 73k with his large loop. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). 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