Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24501 invoked from network); 21 May 2001 13:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 May 2001 13:21:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 269 invoked from network); 21 May 2001 13:20:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 May 2001 13:20:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 151pUv-0001Fu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 May 2001 14:13:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 151pUk-0001Fm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 May 2001 14:13:11 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA07656; Mon, 21 May 2001 14:16:50 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 16136 invoked from network); 21 May 2001 14:04:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 21 May 2001 14:04:15 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA13912; Mon, 21 May 2001 13:58:45 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma013821; Mon, 21 May 01 13:58:27 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 14:18:44 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 21 May 2001 14:10:33 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C04B9@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "Holtby Linda C" Subject: LF: RE: Wimborne talk on Wolf Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:10:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Replying to Stuart's comments re Wolf signalling . This is quite a long EMail so if you have no interest in real radio comms engineering switch off now :-( > I was thinking some more about James' talk on Wolf yesterday, > and I have a few basic questions. > Wolf consists of a data encoding system layered over an > error recover system, layered over a bit synchronisation system > finally layered over bpsk. The upper layers woud work fine > over any transmission layer ie dfcw. Is BPSK actually the most > optimal bit transmission system? How is convolutional coding going to work with a fuzzy mode signalling waveform such as DFCW ?. By Fuzzy Mode, I mean it requires human intervention to decode the signal. If you mean Frequency Shift Keying, see below. In an environment where the distortion mechanism is purely additive noise and interference - such as seems to be the case at LF, with no significant multipath or coherent time delayed interference - BPSK will nearly always be the optimum solution for the signalling waveform. This is due to its bipolar nature ie +/-1 as compared with any orthogonal solution such as FSK where the descision is being made between 0/1 - ie there is a 3dB advantage immediately. Practical matters such as clock recovery and frequency error can make the descision less clear cut, but on a purely mathematical basis BPSK will always win in a noise + QRM only environment > Am I correct in thinking that BPSK is so good because you are > actually repeating the bit on every carrier cycle and integrating > the result? Integrating over multiple bits is nothing to do with it being BPSK - that technique could be used for any signalling waveform. The 16 times integration - if it is applied to a coherent waveform, ie. voltage summing, can give a 16^2 times improvement or 24dB in S/N which is the case for Wolf If the summing is incoherent, ie using Power (which is VERY unlikely to be the case for any BPSK demodulator, but would be the case for incoherent wqveforms such as FSK) the improvement would only be 16 times, ie 12dB. > I was also thinking that you could send wolf on the divide down > CW transmitters that some folks use. By injecting the audio > tone from a PC into a 13.6MHz transciever operating SSB and > then dividing down by 100 you should generate an equivelent > signal to the linear translation approach save for the envelope To generate a 180 degree phase shift by dividing down cannot be done. Phase shift scales with division ratio, and if dividing by 100, this would require 180 * 100 = 18000 degrees phase shift at the fundamental. This, of course, is a multiple of 360 degrees so would not give any phase shift at all. To generate the shift would still require a separate modulator. The converse is also true of course. To generate 180 deg on a mutiplied signal requires a lower shift at the fundemental. eg to generate BPSK at 1296MHz would require just a 0 / 15 degree phase shift to be applied to a 108MHz drive signal. This is the reason why old style VHF FM transmitters (before synthesizers were in use) always started with a low frequency crystal and multiplied up. The phase shift - and hence FM - could be generated in a simple circuit and increased by multiplication. It would probably work if you used an odd division ratio though. > shaping. However by keying the carrier off-on during the transition > the normal CW wave shaping should clean up the signal. > Does this work? Note that the error in the carrier will be the > dominant term, and not the error in the the modulation, which may > have some advantages. > As we tried to say at the meeting, it is NOT just a case of switching the carrier off at the phase transition point then back on. The amplitude has to be slowly ramped down, the phase switched, then the amplitude ramped back up again. The width of the sidebands is directly related to the speed of this ramp. Therefore, a ramp of 1ms from full carrier to zero would result in sidebands 1/(2.pi * 1ms) Hz wide - approx 160 Hz at some defined level. A 2ms ramp 80 Hz at this same level and pro-rata. The shape of the ramp dictates how fast the higher order sidebands roll off. A linear ramp is poor, the high order sidebands ones roll off slowly, whatever their initial level may be. However, a ramp based on the shape of half a sinewave (the so-call raised cosine shape) gives ones of the best roll offs of all. I suggest you fully read the article on PSK31 By G3PLX that appeared in RadCom a few years ago. PSK31 is the ultimate case of waveform shaping where the complete bit interval is a half sine wave and a 0/1 repeat cycle gives two single tones separated by half the baud rate - and nothing else. But in any PSK mode, there will always be a trade off of bandwidth vs. signalling efficiency. PSK31 throws away several dB of Signal / Noise performance to achieve a very narrow bandwidth. The VE2IQ system on the other hand works best if no shaping at all is employed. Where waveform shaping is used, any system works best at optimum Signal / Noise when the receiver is exactly matched to the transmitted waveform - a so called matched filter technique - even if this means the Rx appears to take in the signal over a very wide bandwidth. It is collecting as much of the signal as it can and processing this correctly to give the best Signal to Noise ratio possible - Whatever the bandwidth of the signal may end up as. It could well be that the energy of a signal keyed at 1Hz is spread over 1MHz bandwidth for very sharp BPSK. BUT if the receiver takes in every 1Hz whisker over this entire bandidth it will give better decoding and optimise S/N than if the signal were filtered to 1 or 2Hz bandwidth before demodulation. For data communications you need always to take a holistic approach and not just consider bandwidth, filtering, modulation type data rate etc. as separate entities. All are closely related and it may be necessary to separate out or sacrifice one parameter for the sake of optimising other factors such as bandwidth, resistance to interference etc. For example, at HF the dominant interference is often not noise but multipath. Here parameters such as data rate need to be optimised to counter the several milliseconds of multipath, and often the best HF waeforms are those that take up a whole 3kHz bandwidth and are subsequently reduced by coding and repetition to allow data rates that can be a slow as 70 Bits / s. Needless to say these are not favoured by radio Amateurs - but can often be heard all over HF these days sounding a bit like a diesel engine chuntering away. The repetition rate is the repeat length needed to test and measure the multipath and repeat data if necessary. Whew.........! Andy G4JNT > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful.