Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18020 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 10:32:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 10:32:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 14173 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 10:32:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 10:32:12 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rzwf-0005rm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:21:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rzwa-0005rh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:21:16 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA12535; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:24:23 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 18834 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 11:15:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 11:15:10 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id LAA29763; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:11:54 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma029686; Tue, 24 Apr 01 11:11:19 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:27:13 +0100 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:20:10 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0454@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Propagation monitoring and LORAN Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:20:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: May recall a discussion about using Loran for propagation monitoringon this reflector a couple of months ago which I then forwarded to G3PLX. He seems to have started looking at this method of propagation monitoring in some detail now. See attached. Andy G4JNT ---------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Peter Martinez [mailto:Peter.Martinez@btinternet.com] Sent: 2001-04-14 10:27 To: Talbot Andrew Subject: Re: FW: Comports and Delphi Andy: Just thought I would give you an interim report on the LORAN project. I have a working system now, after quite a bit of work and some useful help from Stewart Nelson. At the moment the program runs on my 56001 card with the PC software under DOS but the next step is to move it over to the soundcard and Windows. The present system uses a conventional SSB receiver tuned 1.7 kHz off 100 kHz so that the LORAN signal appears at 1700Hz in the audio band. Only the signal 1 kHz either side of 100kHz is processed, so the resolution and the sensititivity are limited. The program contains a database of LORAN stations worldwide, and needs to know the user's latitude and longitude within 1 degree and the date/time to an accuracy of a few seconds. With this information, the program looks for the nearest LORAN chain, which in my case is the Lessay chain, and identifies the master station, locking it's own oscillator frequency to that of the signal and synchronising it's clock to the repetition rate. By using the signal from the second-most-local chain (in my case the Sylt chain), the program can resolve any ambiguity in the timing. Without this the program would need to know the precise time to within +/- one repetition cycle of 67mS, which is not easy. Using two chains, the system can lock even if the PC clock is several tens of secs out. It would be possible to use some other external time reference, such as MSF, DCF77, or WWV, to resolve the ambiguity if only one LORAN chain was audible locally. I haven't done this yet. The most interesting part of the research needed to write the time-synchronisation code was the part where I had to calculate the precise number of cycles of the 100kHz LORAN carrier frequency that had occurred between midnight on 31st December 1957 and the time I start the program! This has to take account of leap years and leap seconds during this time, and is needed in order to set all the repetition-cycle counters to the correct values, since they were all notionally "zeroed" on this date and will never be in step again for the foreseeable future. Having locked in frequency and time to the local chain, there is no further sensitivity to drift of the local oscillators, and the program can then be used to look for the signals from any other known LORAN chain right down into the noise. At the moment I have made it coherently integrate up to about half an hour and retains the last 30 minutes of history thereafter. I haven't found this to be too long: if the skywave signals were too unstable, I would have seen the signal level rise to a peak soon after zeroing the integrator then fall back down into the noise. There is no sign of this effect even on the more distant signals. In any case, I would expect only local skywave signals to exhibit large variations, with the more distant ones being less disturbed in phase by sunrise/sunset effects. Because the program knows it's own location and synchronises to absolute time via the local LORAN signal, and all the other LORAN transmitters are also synchronised in time, it should be possible to predict precisely the arrival time of each signal. Each pulse seen on the screen should be identifiable from the database. However, I have seen three chains which are not well aligned to absolute time (West Russia, Saudi Arabia North, and Saudi Arabia South). The time-offsets of these chains, if they are stable, could be included in the database but at the moment, looking at these signals means they are off to one side of the display or the other by a few tens of mS. Incidently, a by-product of locking to LORAN in this way is that the system provides an accurate time-signal, limited only by the uncertainty in the delay through the IF filter of the LORAN receiver. I am seeing East Coast USA/Canada LORAN signals, notably Fox Harbor (18dB SNR) and Cape Race in Newfoundland, with Comfort Cove, Caribou, and Nantucket also occassionaly visible at night. In the other direction, the Saudi Arabian chains and Russian signals up to 40E are visible. Porting the program to the soundcard would make it more readily available to others, but I may not be able to do a good job of this myself because my PC is not fast enough. It would help if another programmer with Win 9X and a decent Pentium were to pick up this project rather than me. Using a narrowband SSB receiver is not an ideal way to monitor LORAN but there is the interesting possibility of building a simple direct-conversion receiver, perhaps with quadrature mixers. This, with a fast PC, would be capable of demodulating the full +/- 10kHz LORAN spectrum. Contrary to conventional weak-signal experience, the sensitivity will be rather better with a wider bandwidth and the time resolution will also be much improved, to the extent that separate pulses for surface waves and skywaves should be visible on many signals. I propose to experiment with this approach myself in order to verify that this idea will work. I am not sure, for example, whether the lack of a DC path through the soundcard will be a problem. I also propose to lock the oscillator in the direct-conversion receiver back to a tone output from the soundcard itself. This in turn makes it possible to reference the software timing to the received 100kHz RF phase rather than just to the received pulse envelope. This eliminates a further source of drift/error and opens up interesting possibilities for studying received signal phase and for truly coherent transmission and reception of other signals using LORAN as a common reference for time and frequency. Pass this on to the LF group if you think they might be interested. 73 Peter -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful.