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From: "Talbot Andrew" <ACTALBOT@dera.gov.uk>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: RE: LF: More QRM ?
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:58:58 +0100
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The military ARE very concerned.  That is one of the main reasons (along
with the BBC and RSGB pressure)  that the UK limit has been set much
lower, and even that was 10 - 20dB up on what we really wanted.  

Representations are being made via NATO and other defence organisations,
but seem to be falling on deaf ears where Germany is concerned.   

Andy  G4JNT


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stewart.bryant@virgin.net]
> Sent: 2001-04-11 14:18
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Subject: Re: LF: More QRM ?
> 
> 
> I wonder if the European Human Rights Legislation applies and takes
> prescient? This change in the noise floor takes away our right and
> pre-existing ability to communicate with other human beings via a
> natural phenomina.
> 
> The Human Rights legislation has had a considerable impact in the UK
> in forcing the government to change their policies.
> 
> I would have thought that the military would have taken a serious
> view about the loss of this resource. I also understand that 
> there is a
> new MF broadcast digital entertainment system that would be effected
> by this. Why have both of these lobby groups been quite on this?
> 
> 73
> 
> Stewart G3YSX
> 
> 
> Hans-Joachim Brandt wrote:
> 
> > Dear all,
> >
> > in order to convert just words into figures I feel it 
> necessary to describe the
> > situation in Germany more in detail.
> >
> > The german NB30 standard has been rejected by all german 
> radio users and
> > radio equipment manufacturers since it has been proposed. 
> For those who know the
> > british MPT 1570 the problem is that NB30 allows 
> interfering fieldstrengths 20
> > dB higher. But even the resistance of the german 
> broadcasters could not prevent
> > the adoption of the NB30 standard. The declared aim of the 
> german government
> > and the upper house of parliament has been to give "modern 
> telecommunications
> > technologies" a chance. The CENELEC standard on CATV 
> systems covering 5 MHz to
> > 3000 MHz has also been aligned to the NB30 limits earlier, 
> at least in the HF
> > and VHF-UHF range. (NB is simply a german abbreviation for 
> Nutzungsbestimmung =
> > operational condition or regulation. There are other NB 
> numbers within the
> > german frequency allocation table.)
> >
> > A radio amateur living in a house in which cables are 
> operated under the
> > conditions of the NB30 and having a half wave antenna 10 
> meters away from his
> > house will have to expect the following calculated S meter readings:
> >
> > Band, MHz       1,8             3,6             7       14  
>     21      28
> > NB30
> > dB(muV/m)       37,8            35,1            32,6    
> 29,9    28,4    27,3
> > S-Meter         S9 +12 dB       S9 +3 dB        S8      
> S6-7    S5-6    S5
> >
> > I hope the table will be delivered in the same order in 
> which I have typed it.
> >
> > The second line gives the interfering fieldstrength 
> permitted by NB30. The
> > situation is bad, especially for QRPers. But all efforts of 
> DARC to prevent such
> > a decision were in vain.
> >
> > Regarding the frequency depending levels of the NB30 it 
> must be stated that it
> > will allow VDSL and telecommunication over CATV, but only 
> low-level PLC.
> > High-level PLC producing interfering fieldstrengths of 80 
> dB(muV/m) or even
> > more, is not permitted, this being the reason for the 
> SIEMENS company to leave
> > the PLC business some weeks ago. ASCOM (who now will supply 
> power line companies
> > which formerly had decided to use SIEMENS equipment) has 
> claimed in a newspaper
> > interview that NB30 low-level PLC would not enable a bit 
> failure rate
> > sufficiently low for 75% of all mains outlets. Therefore 
> PLC becomes more costy,
> > less dependable, repeaters are needed etc. The real winners 
> of the german
> > government decision seem to be those companies which will 
> operate VDSL over
> > telephone lines because they will have no (or only few) 
> problems to meet the
> > NB30 radiation levels. We know that in the U. K. the MPT 
> 1570 (the range 1.6 to
> > 30 MHz, from December 1999) is also under pressure because 
> its low levels even
> > do not permit VDSL operation, but offers much better 
> protection for radio
> > services.
> >
> > The European Commission is also in favour of PLC, because a 
> network independant
> > of the telephone net could be used. But after the PLC Forum 
> had conducted a PLC
> > workshop before the Commission, where strong opposition by 
> radio users had been
> > presented, the Commission is said to be at least unsafe 
> whom to believe. But
> > basically the Commission still thinks that a compromise 
> with radio users should
> > be possible, and still hopes that a standard would solve 
> all problems.
> >
> > For the time being, german radio amateurs hope, of course, 
> that this german
> > example will not be copied by other nations and that 
> european standardization
> > (especially the way being carried out in CEPT SE35) will 
> result in lower
> > interference radiation levels, for the benefit of radio 
> services. And we also
> > hope that the german administration will be able to 
> effectively control the NB30
> > limits throughout the country; otherwise a chaos would 
> develop, no question.
> >
> > Sorry to report such a situation here over the server.
> >
> > 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB
> >
> > Andre' Kesteloot schrieb:
> > > Power lines win German support
> > > By Reuters
> > > March 30, 2001, 11:05 a.m. PT
> > >  FRANKFURT--Germany's Bundesrat upper house of parliament 
> on Friday
> > > cleared
> > > regulatory hurdles for the so-called power-line 
> technology for fast
> > > Internet
> > > access via electricity lines. A statement issued by the economics
> > > ministry
> > > in Berlin said three laws setting out the conditions for 
> power-line
> > > operations had been approved, clearing the way for nationwide
> > > implementation
> > > in the 16 states in due course.
> > >
> > > The move gives power line the chance of competing with 
> other established
> > >
> > > communications channels such as cable television and 
> telephone networks.
> > >
> > > Analysts say that by delivering high-speed Internet 
> connections through
> > > residential wall sockets, utilities could break the phone 
> companies'
> > > grip on
> > > Internet access while also offsetting recent losses due 
> to shrinking
> > > retail
> > > power margins.
> > >
> > > Story Copyright C 2001 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> 


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