Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17744 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:50:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:50:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 24733 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:50:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:50:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UtKM-0007Wg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:38:18 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UtKK-0007Wb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:38:17 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:37:18 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:37:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Where next? Message-ID: <3A914BBC.21127.199C4CC@localhost> In-reply-to: <3A914553.D8AC3DB@usa.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > ..................... One such candidate could be the Steve Onley's FDK. I > know that, theoretically, PSK can have an advantage over non-coherent > FSK, but this doesn't take into account phase distortion over very > long paths. But I will leave to others to discuss about the pros and > cons of the two methods. > 73 Alberto I2PHD A factor that is often ignored when comparing PSK08 (for instance) and QRSS is the difference between relying on a machine to interpret the results and using the brain. The spectrogram-type programs do wonderful work but the final 10dB or so is down to the brain deciding what is a valid signal and what is not, then deciding whether it makes sense or not. We really would have a winner if we can combine the obvious theoretical advantages of using FM (or phase mod) rather than AM, especially when noise is a significant limiting factor, with the advantages of a display that allows the brain to add some dBs by intelligently interpreting the result. For instance, how about produce a display that is the result of subtracting the signals and noise in a given audio band, with the signals and noise in another band of the same bandwidth. This might provide a means of reducing the effect of wideband noise such as static (but not random noise) on a conventional mono-frequency transmission by subtracting the noise in the 'no-signal' band from the band containing the signal. It might also provide a 'comparitor' effect so that FSK signals can be better detected - for a given time period, if the output of 'channel A' is bigger than the output of 'channel B' then it is a binary '1'; if the other way round it is a binary '0'.The important thing is to resist the temptation to feed this into a machine that tries its best to work out whether it is a valid character or not - this is the bit that the brain does better. Mike