Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4891 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2000 04:31:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Apr 2000 04:31:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12esFR-00041n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 05:25:57 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12esFO-00041h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 05:25:55 +0100 Received: from [202.27.178.43] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000411041254.TNRT17687901.mta1-rme@[202.27.178.43]> for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:12:54 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38F2A5B4.45A7@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:10:28 +1200 From: "vernall" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Parallel capacitance model References: <000201bfa2cd$05288440$c569883e@lvm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: > > Hi All, > When I first set up my 136 station I put up a Marconi "T" vertical > ant. 15M high 30M long.The best ant. current I could get from my 400 > watt amplifier was 1.8 amps.The measured ground /coil/copper loss was > 125 ohm! Over the past 6 months I have tried to improve this, I have > increased the top to 3 wires,increased the grounding from 2x4 foot > rods plus house wiring/water etc to 10x 4 foot rods, 20 radials each > about 50 feet long plus one radial 150 feet long ending up at an earth > rod in sea water! I also re-made the loading coil with thicker > wire.The total result of all this effort was 2 Amps !!! Not very > encouraging.This weekend I decided to start again.I replaced the "T" > with an inv.L using the same support (tree) at one end but 60M long to > another tree.SO I now have less wire in the air 60M instead of 3x 30M > but stretched out.The loading inductance has not changed so the > capacitance is the same. BUT the ant current is now 3 Amps! > Does this mean that the antenna wire needs to have a longer "footprint > " on the ground?,presumably the current density is less than under the > 3 wire top,but the new ant stretches beyond my radial system,and it is > still much better!.Does this also explain the reported good > performance of so called "long wire" antennas on this band? > Food for thought. > I am hoping to > improve things further but I dont have room to extend the top wire in > a straight line,perhaps I will try a crooked L Hi. > Checks with Eznec indicate a R.Res of about .06 ohms for the "T " > and .0675 for the "L" so with the increased current I hope to have > improved my signal by at least 3db. > 73s Laurie. Some time back I did some impedance measurements on my top loaded vertical by testing the upwire, and also combinations with each top loading on or off. Of course the capacitance increased as wires were added, but it was changes in the resistive component that I was most interested in. As each top loading wire was added, the result was a generally lowering resistance. Lower resistance means more current for a given applied power, and obviously loss resistance is unwelcome in terms of improving LF transmission efficiency. At the good suggestion of Andrew ZL2BBJ, I constructed a spreadsheet that converted all the R+jX data to admittance (parallel conductance and suseptance, G+jB), as this is physically what happens with connection of top loading to the upwire. Having the basic information in parallel format strongly suggested that each "sector" added with coverage by a top loading wire was like adding lossy capacitors in parallel. A fresh sector covered by a top loading wire was like adding more capacitance with a similar "power factor" as could be scaled from the length of top loading wire. There would have been some proximity effect around the top of the upwire, reducing total capacitance when all wires were connected compared to each wire alone, but that can not be avoided. Note that I had several copper radials but it was far from being "copper plated". The net result was that the top loading model appeared to be very like connecting lossy capacitors in parallel. The input resistance (in R+jX thinking) at the base of the vertical should decrease somewhat in proportion to the extent of top loading width and fresh sectors covered. This suggests the wider the top loading the better, and that an X top should be better than for a T as it obviously covers "sideways" over "fresh ground". This also has a lowering current density per square (cubic?) metre of ground. In the case described by Laurie, he has increased top loading coverage from 3x30 metres T to 1x60 metres inverted L. The 3x30 metres of parallel wires has higher capacitance than one wire, but the ground covered is approximately a little more than 30 metres. The L top loading covers 60 metres of ground. This gives a distance ratio of a little under 2. As the current changed from 1.8 to 3 amps (a ratio of 1.67), then the end result is very similar to what I observed. Modelling using NEC-2 software does not support the practical data observed by Laurie or myself. However, NEC-2 software is rather hopeless at modelling real ground. Thus the parallel lossy capacitance model seems to have validity. I have not seen this described in an antenna theory book, but it would seem to be a plausible explanation for input resistance of amateur vertical LF antennas over ground. Bob ZL2CA