Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5916 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 11:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 11:54:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kQHk-0006Ye-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:47:16 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kQHi-0006YZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:47:15 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA09007; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:50:01 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14986 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 12:43:38 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 12:43:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id LAA16626; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:33:11 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016619; Wed, 26 Apr 00 11:32:58 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:50:54 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J099W5M>; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:45:17 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752896@pdw-mercury-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Transatlantic beacon tests Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:45:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I was receiving Marco's carrier during the night tests at 20 - 30dB above noise in a 2mHz bandwidth at a distance of 927km. Daytime was 10 - 15dB lower. In a Spectran bandwidth of 0.03 Hz that will correspond to about 12db less S/N ie 8 - 18dB - a good visible signal on a waterfall, so confirms we are receiving consistent levels between us. Transatlantic test beacons need to be very stable so that the listeners over there that have the equipment can use very narrow bandwidths. Spectran may be popular but it will only go down to 0.03 Hz and other listeners over there do have other DSP equipment that can do a lot better. I suggest we don't use 2 Hz FSK (DFCW) unless this is generated by a DDS or similar source which can absolutely guarantee the tone frequencies. This sort of frequency shift requires a crystal to be pulled a long way and results in a rather hit or miss frequency setting accuracy. Marco's first test showed this when I got a wonderful wobbly trace. Instead, I suggest a simple on / off keyed carrier in traditional SLOWCW or whatever it is called now generated from a source with a bit of care taken over its stability. Normal CW may take longer to send a callsign but so what, if someone actually hears it and can measure S/N. A simple temperature control, such as the clip on crystal heaters based on a positive temperature thermistor (as used by all microwave operators) would help towards getting the sort of accuracy needed. On my 10 GHz transceiver kept in the shack, a normal crystal with one of these devices generally stays within 1ppm A small packaged TCXO source, now available from Farnell and other suppliers for a few pounds, is specified at 1 or 2 ppm accuracy, but my experience of packaged TCXOs is that they generally do a lot better than this if kept in a normal reasonably constant indoor environment. 0.2ppm means 27mHz accuracy which is comfortably on scale for an FFT span of 0.061 Hz (my slowest is 0.03 Hz) giving a resolution of 1mHz. A heater on one of these could probably do even better. For a serious transatlantic beacon project, I have a 5 MHz source available. This is a laboratory standard oscillator but MUST be kept running. After a few days stabilising, it will stay within a few parts in 10^-10 (but if switched off and on again, hysteresis reduces the accuracy and it needs to be reset. Needless to say there is no hope whatsoever of FSKing it ! I also have a DDS source controlled by the 5 MHz which can give a frequency setting resolution of 1mHz. These can be made available to anyone serious who wants to set up and keep going a suitable high power beacon. I can also offer off air frequency measurement to anyone who needs a beacon measured. Andy G4JNT > >So, as Alan implies, the same QRSS techniques used with amateur QRO >(circa 1w erp) stations could be used to bridge the 'pond' at any >time provided conditions were reasonable. The obvious solution would >be to monitor a station running in beacon mode with QRSS keying. >>From our experience this requires a lot of very close liaison with >the those involved on both sides of the Atlantic and up to now I have >not seen much evidence of this, although I would be the first to >agree that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful.