Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19082 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2000 18:29:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2000 18:29:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hsi8-000653-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:32 +0000 Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.10]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12Hsi4-00064y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:16:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.fb.1e5c35d (4331) for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:15:42 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:15:42 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: LF Propagation thoughts (and antenna, too) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 228 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik writes: > Regarding the groundresistance the rules was : the lesser the better. No > only for the sake of antenna effeciency but also to avoid radiation at > higher angles. This 'high angle radiation' was for the commercials, who > were only interested in surface wave propagation (stable 24h/day, 365 > days/year) not only pure waste but also a source of possible interference > (via ionospheric wave). > > But if we want to make 'DX-QSOs' with 1 Watt ERP we defenitely need > ionospheric wave propagation, so producing some higher angle radiation > might be usefull. Yes and no. Commercial and military LF stations do not depend on surface wave alone, especially not at transatlantic distances. One cannot achieve globe-spanning distances with surface waves above roughly 100 kHz; and even some ways down below 50 or 60 kHz, conventional ionospheric refraction still plays a significant role. It is not until one gets down to VLF that the propagation model changes dramatically. The commercial guys do suppress high angle radiation to whatever extent possible, but that's not because they are only interested in groundwave. High angle radiation causes problems with the more desirable low angle skywave at intermediate distances, and wastes power that would be more beneficial for long-distance coverage if it could be radiated at the lower angles. If one were able to radiate most of one's power at, say, less than 5 degrees above the horizon, the signal would stand a far better chance of making it across the ocean than if the bulk of the power were 20 or 30 degrees above. That's where the region of the ionosphere is that we want to excite. (I keep saying "if," though, because in practice, any short vertical already has plenty of high angle radiation well above 30 degrees, whether we want it or not.) Further increasing high angle radiation with horizontal runs of wire may have interesting propagation effects, as described in another post, but this is over medium distances. We must take into account how much "D" we are really talking about when we speak of transatlantic DX. I'm not speaking of this from a theoretical standpoint so far as amateur efforts are concerned, either. Nor do I mean, in what follows, to detract *in any way* from the excellent work being done by the AMRAD group. They have opportunities to experiment with power levels and antenna lengths that we 1 watt / 15 m antenna LowFERs can only dream of for now, and I have no doubt that much valuable information will result. I merely point out that the recent successful copy of the AMRAD beacon in Ontario, despite the long horizontal antenna and the power levels involved, does not quite yet match some of the DX achieved by stations working within the 1 w / 15 m limits. Utilizing much patience and only moderately slow digital techniques, one-way copy has been achieved from California to Minnesota, Georgia to Minnesota, Texas to Quebec, and more. (I nearly hesitate to mention the old CW LowFER record from California to Hawaii, as it required a once-in-a-lifetime combination of good propagation, ideally situated stations, and remarkably low noise levels. Yet, there it was.) Apart from the latter example, the stations were sending Coherent CW or BPSK. All, without exception, employed vertical antennas, top loaded to the maximum extent allow by regulations, working over the best ground systems that their operators were able to achieve! At no time would I suggest that anyone is wasting their time pursuing new ideas. However, I don't think it would be productive to arbitrarily set aside the commercial operators' examples as being irrelevant, either. Especially, in the face of such strong experimental evidence that what's sauce for the commercial goose may also be sauce for the amateur gander. 73, John KD4IDY