Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20755 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 23:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 23:46:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12N2Pl-0003eZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:38:53 +0000 Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12N2Pk-0003eR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:38:52 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.bf.11e89de (4353) for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:38:12 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:38:11 EST Subject: LF: 136.547 kHz tx intermodulation To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 62 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alan, hello friends, >I also see a weak continuous trace 136.547kHz also another exactly 100Hz >higher, I did wonder whether they were the mark and space frequencies of a >100Hz shift FSK station. The lower frequency is weaker here. Anybody know >this one?? > >73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB yeah, sure know this one. Took a while to figure things out... On 136.75, there is nothing here. However, the other carrier you see appears to be a tx-intermodulation product generated in the output stages of two strong transmitters in Mainflingen near Frankfurt, 165 km from my qth JN59NK. One of these is called DCF42 (I think), a bigger brother of our now-famous DBF39 (138.83/139.17 kHz). It operates on 128.93/129.27 (86 dBuV/m here) and carries the same fsk telegrams for remote-power-control purposes. There is a time lag of approx. 60 ms between the master (DCF42) and the slave (DBF39). The other tx sends 1190 baud data (DGPS?) centered on 123.69 kHz (74 dBuV/m) and has a broad, noise-like spectrum. It is accompanied by an auxiliary carrier on 122.50 (59 dBuV/m), presumably to aid synchronization to the data rate. And there is a weaker harmonic of the auxiliary 2380 Hz below center (121.31 kHz, 26 dBuV/m). The upper IM product (2*f1-f2) is again a heap of noise from 133 to 135.4 kHz (34 dBuV/m, ie. only 40 dB down), with the auxiliaries appearing on 135.36 (29 dBuV/m) and 136.55 (10 dBuV/m), close to the ropex qrg. These IM-products also carry the DCF49 modulation with the shift doubled to +680 Hz. In this part of Germany, we thus see periodic interference during the telegrams. Also, the higher order DGPS-modulation sidebands seem to cause a significant continuous noise increase up to 137 kHz, limiting the rx-sensitivity of stations in the Frankfurt area. To get the ERP (=EIRP/3) estimates in dBm, subtract 5.2 dB from the dBuV/m figures for 165km. Thus DCF42 should have 120 kW, DGPS is aired with 8 kW, and the im carriers are .25 W on 135.36 and 3 mW on 136.55 ... congrats on your good ears Alan! 73, all the best Markus, DF6NM