Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13345 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 21:59:01 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO magnet.force9.net) (195.166.128.26) by guiness.force9.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 21:59:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 13869 invoked from network); 3 Oct 1999 21:04:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by magnet.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Oct 1999 21:04:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Xsaf-0003Tb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:50:41 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 11Xsac-0003TQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:50:39 +0100 Received: from [203.96.99.240] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19991003205522.LOQR695.mta1-rme@[203.96.99.240]> for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:55:22 +1300 Message-ID: <37F7C071.24C8@xtra.co.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 09:45:37 +1300 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Receivers References: <004101bf0cdf$11aaa6a0$0600a8c0@main> <001b01bf0d7f$0719c400$22c622c3@34.thefree.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Thanks to contributors of comments on receiver performance at LF. Some more points tossed in to the melting pot ... The bandwidth and shape factor of a receiver IF filter is one of the "hearty annuals" of amateur radio discussion. What most users focus on is the STEADY STATE frequency response, as one could verify by tuning across a clean carrier as a test signal (and not forgetting about phase noise and reciprocal mixing, but not to digress ...). The parameter that is not adequately mentioned in specifications is the TRANSIENT RESPONSE of a filter but at any LF band (and MF and lower HF as well) that is of great importance as the "static" is a type of unavoidable impulse applied to the receiver. For trying to copy weak signals, what happens to the static peaks can end up as "ringing" in the IF filter output, even if it seemed "cleaner" at the antenna terminals or filter input. Passive filter circuits can not avoid some amount of ringing. It necessarily gets worse as the passband is narrowed. This can be thought of as impulse energy being "converted" to ringing energy within the passband. Once the ringing energy is inband, it "pollutes" the wanted signal. The filter phase response (also known in its derivative form as group delay) depends on the specific type of design (Butterworth, Chebychev, Elliptic, Bessel, etc or a hybrid combination). The filter with least ringing is the Bessel design, but it also has the least skirt selectivity. So in summary, steady state filter response is only part of the story, and transient response is one of the parameters that has a big influence on the results of receiving with narrowband settings (not only to aural CW, but to other modes such as RTTY or PSK-31). Going for (passive component) filters with test results of "square skirt responses" and "narrower passbands" is a recipe for a lot of ringing, guaranteed. I would imagine that commercial designs of the narrow band crystal filters (for receivers) do trade off skirt roll-off as bandwidths are narrowed. This is probably a topic where results are commercially or militarily sensitive and could be why there is a lack of public domain information. Most of the amateur designs of narrow filters are entirely focussed on selectivity results and appear to under-estimate the matter of transient response. The characteristics of an IF noise blanker can also be significant to "improving" reception of weak LF signals, as the blanker tries to negate the burst of QRN by temporarily switching off the IF gain. I have had an audio DSP accessory with variable bandwidth for some time, and in theory it can give incredible selectivity along with "no ringing". While it tests out rather well for audio signal to noise situations (more signal than noise), I find it is not of practical advantage when tried in noise to signal situations. However, it is noise to signal situations that is the attraction to amateur DX work! So in summary, I have found that audio DSP can make good signals better, but it also makes bad signals worse (as judged by aural listening). Consequently I do not bother using audio DSP for weak signal listening. I can not comment on receivers with DSP in the final IF, as I have not tried one. However, if they can do digital blanking of noise bursts as well as filtering with minimal ringing then they could have something to offer that passive filters do not? When receivers are tested on the bench, with fairly pure signal generator sources, and under steady state conditions, they can verify the specifications that are in the advertised data for selectivity and signal to noise performance. Putting that receiver on LF (using a converter if the tuning range does not go down that far) where there is always "pops" of QRN will soon sort out how ringing impacts on narrow bandwidth options and when receiving weak signals. I am not aware of a standard test method to produce measured results of how a receiver performs in noise to signal ratio situations (especially with impulse QRN on LF), but that particular aspect would be of great interest to this discussion group. Bob ZL2CA