Return-Path: Received: from rly-dd01.mx.aol.com (rly-dd01.mail.aol.com [172.19.141.148]) by air-dd08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD084-b584b4f7d403a4; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:24:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-dd01.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDD012-b584b4f7d403a4; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:23:32 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NVWCy-0002B8-UZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:22:20 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NVWCy-0002Az-74 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:22:20 +0000 Received: from mail-fx0-f217.google.com ([209.85.220.217]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NVWCu-0007DJ-4J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:22:20 +0000 Received: by fxm9 with SMTP id 9so22335723fxm.30 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:22:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=h6D7ckAwfDf2dJT/BmKrsUquSEht0JuGg6h+d4QTvtA=; b=rB9SCWTcP1d8fWA8/8beVZwdQC1KtqpEj+rP7/PKChf9k+1ExR4S0KVOFv6BMJ2kIB W5QXv/AisGmmoykIc5x4q8SIGyxYsc4KaHaELP8UrepY7y+aTtglRw4mFCkgiswMsZNd cg2e2F+72Y49eJTQOgGO4ijDVgEGgZlqpymB8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=gkc3jbnisD+c6zRqcOFohpQ7JmsKN+ANlBZtL/uSKfMknAKtiSnOr0xT/Cgm1KBUpe 4/4vpl4p7Y6SEXdXFAC1znzCaHHYix5jJlxkI/rr+X1+UPC/wBHqSuaeUt4QTmRovPRq Jww0GYmcigJIqtaemN1sHWhAh7WC+h6RehfOs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.156.14 with SMTP id k14mr128806hbc.181.1263500529672; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:22:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641001140546v61772ef5mbb0fa9510db5eba@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f0624b91001131347i18ff85bbxb5977cdcb3c438f5@mail.gmail.com> <20100113220536.23ff9c6e@opc1> <20100113232415.j3jn4brkyqs4gg0s@webmail6.kuleuven.be> <1f0624b91001140306k7eff5b4cn9ae73cb5cc6a37fc@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641001140408o9e58f8g36272480eb115958@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641001140546v61772ef5mbb0fa9510db5eba@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:22:09 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 500khz WSPR drift Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f855e63ea1ea047d25a44e X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m247.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001485f855e63ea1ea047d25a44e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, I did :-) The FT817 block diagram shows two oscillators in the chain a master at 22.625 and 'another' at 22.7785 - so that idea gets knocked out straightaway. They done it on the cheap :-( SO you probably wouldn't even get a drift advantage by moving to a lower RF to transvert from. I *was *going to suggest mixing from topband to effect some frequency drift reduction. Andy www.g4jnt.com 2010/1/14 Roger Lapthorn > You mean derive it from the *transceiver's* master oscilllator. Yes, a > good idea, but the MO is not available on an unmodified FT817 but may well > be on "grown up" radios. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > 2010/1/14 Andy Talbot > > If you are able to derive the transverter LO from the transverter's >> master oscillator do so. That way errors will be cancelled out and any >> frequency drift will be now be in direct proportion to the final output >> frequency, rather than being that associated with any arbitrarily high IF. >> >> Just an example: >> The master oscillator in the IC746 is at 30MHz, so transverting from >> 30.5MHz would be an option in this case. But one could just as easily >> divide this by 2 first and transvert from 15.5MHz. >> >> Andy >> www.g4jnt.com >> >> This email has been scanned for damaging side-effects by the health and >> safety police, is guaranteed to contain no substances hazardous to health, >> but may contribute to dissolving the nether and polar regions >> >> >> 2010/1/14 Roger Lapthorn >> >> My own QRP transverter goes from 28MHz down to 500kHz and this drifts >>> about 40Hz before settling as the oscillator warms, so I have to be on-hand >>> to adjust the dial setting in the first 30 minutes. I should leave the >>> oscillator running all the time or have this on for 30 minutes before I >>> start TXing. >>> >>> At 50MHz drift would be worse. Also, I'm not sure what ambient >>> temperature LA3EQ has got, but I bet it is cold, so his drift might be even >>> greater as his transverter (higher power than mine) warms up more over a >>> larger temperature range. >>> >>> 73s >>> Roger G3XBM >>> >>> 2010/1/14 Gary - G4WGT >>> >>> Hi guys, >>>> >>>> Yes it was LA3EQ, started getting decodes as the drift flattened out. >>>> 50 MHz to 500 kHz is a long way to transvert, I use 4 MHz & as far as I am >>>> aware no drift problems after half an hour or so warm up. >>>> >>>> Thanks all the comments. >>>> >>>> Gary - G4WGT. >>>> >>>> 2010/1/13 James Moritz >>>> >>>> Dear LF Group, >>>>> >>>>> ...The perils of having a 50MHz -> 500kHz transverter! 3.5MHz would be >>>>> a better IF frequency from the drift point of view. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, Jim Moritz >>>>> 73 de M0BMU >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Strobbe" < >>>>> Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:24 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: LF: 500khz WSPR drift >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> over the past 12 hours I had 51 spots of LA3EQ, frequency ranging from >>>>>> 503848 to 503885 >>>>>> >>>>>> 73, Rik >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >>> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >>> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 >>> >> >> > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --001485f855e63ea1ea047d25a44e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes,=A0I did :-)
=A0
The FT817 block diagram=A0shows two oscillators in the chain=A0 a mas= ter at 22.625 and 'another' at 22.7785 - so that idea gets knocked= out straightaway.=A0 They done it on the cheap :-(=A0
=A0
SO you probably wouldn't even get a drift advantage by=A0moving= to a lower RF to transvert from.=A0 I was going to sugge= st=A0mixing from topband to effect some frequency drift reduction.
2010/1/14 Roger Lapthorn <= rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>=
You mean derive it from the transceiver's master oscilllator. Yes, a good idea, but the MO is= not available on an unmodified FT817 but may well be on "grown up&qu= ot; radios.

73s
Roger G3XBM

2010/1/14 Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@go= oglemail.com>=20

If you are able to derive the transverter LO from the transverter'= ;s master oscillator do so.=A0 That way=A0errors will be cancelled out and= =A0any frequency=A0drift will be now be in direct proportion to the final= output frequency, rather than being that associated with any arbitrarily= high IF.
=A0
Just an example:
The master oscillator in the IC746 is at 30MHz, so transverting from= 30.5MHz would be an option in this case.=A0 But one could just as easily= divide this by 2 first and transvert from 15.5MHz.
=A0
Andy
www.g4jnt= .com

This email has been scanned for damaging side-effects by= the health and safety police, is guaranteed to contain no substances haza= rdous to health, but may contribute to dissolving the nether and polar reg= ions


2010/1/14 Roger Lapthorn <= rogerlapthorn= @gmail.com>=20

My own QRP transv= erter goes from 28MHz down to 500kHz and this drifts about 40Hz before set= tling as the oscillator warms, so I have to be on-hand to adjust the dial= setting in the first 30 minutes. I should leave the oscillator running al= l the time or have this on for 30 minutes before I start TXing.

At 50MHz drift would be worse. Also, I'm not sure what ambient tem= perature LA3EQ has got, but I bet it is cold, so his drift might be even= greater as his transverter (higher power than mine) warms up more over a= larger temperature range.

73s
Roger G3XBM

2010/1/14 Gary - G4WGT <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk= >=20

Hi guys,=20

Yes it was LA3EQ, =A0started getting decodes as the drift flattened= out. 50 MHz to 500 kHz is a long way to transvert, I use 4 MHz & as= far as I am aware no drift problems after half an hour or so warm up.

Thanks all the comments.

Gary - G4WGT.

2010/1/13 James Moritz <james.mori= tz@btopenworld.com>=20

Dear LF Group,
...The perils of having a 50MHz -> 500kHz transverter! 3.5MHz woul= d be a better IF frequency from the drift point of view.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message -----= From: "Rik Strobbe" <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
To: <<= a href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" target=3D"_blank">rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: LF: 500khz WSPR= drift=20



over the past 12= hours I had 51 spots of LA3EQ, frequency ranging from 503848 to 503885
73, Rik





--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.= uk
= http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 = =A0ISWL G11088


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