Return-Path: Received: from rly-me08.mx.aol.com (rly-me08.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.42]) by air-me01.mail.aol.com (v123.3) with ESMTP id MAILINME014-9d349bec4e8146; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:30:41 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-me08.mx.aol.com (v123.3) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINME087-9d349bec4e8146; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:30:17 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LjKNf-0006aP-8a for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:29:55 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LjKNe-0006aG-3r for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:29:54 +0000 Received: from mail-fx0-f174.google.com ([209.85.220.174]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LjKNb-0005sW-S2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:29:54 +0000 Received: by fxm22 with SMTP id 22so3934675fxm.4 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:29:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2RTNPbons6q+Dz8rz2/riUIMKWQAxl1a8O0GFOWkyGs=; b=jaBRuB0Iex8/ZWUv3P4h9DZpzJmkwbICzCTcX49VrTGnO3iw7/kwuTcQ4lJhbB14pq WNd8pKrDzOjy0hadIJUqhNe/IBSx/gerI7raWAxA47MxvthAwy3ftKwrDtHzyH6e41l/ j+NCLkaJyMsxfvxTlTsRWocne6nrNaNEL7dd0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=C2vqrDKNSssSvMXkGnwyCqLGsnLI1A+FaiEjWbJe28DV54IgpF9luENMRFgFgCJFMR Zu5RaBOvZ1f2YAJ/jhOyYIULWoUuixa617/IHeYRGoq4qABhir/TGLpH4nECpUzIWmq7 Q8oXRlp0VcWguvbDdarulfiZWcArorBrrSFpQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.64.196 with SMTP id f4mr1758001bki.151.1237237404992; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:03:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <005101c9a679$df148f50$6401a8c0@asus> References: <009001c9a588$7eb02c60$6401a8c0@asus> <00e001c9a5a7$f07216a0$6401a8c0@asus> <826BA6086575402A8C87062492069F5A@AGB> <004501c9a623$a4bf81d0$6401a8c0@asus> <2ED02F4327204E3C903828F9E18AA72B@AGB> <001e01c9a665$ebeac870$6401a8c0@asus> <00be01c9a66e$c8bfdbc0$0900a8c0@AM> <004a01c9a677$2a8b48a0$6401a8c0@asus> <005101c9a679$df148f50$6401a8c0@asus> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:03:24 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b1f70703d8046542c865 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d249.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001636c5b1f70703d8046542c865 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't destroy your noise figure though. But at HF you can probably get away with 20 dB at least. Andy G4JNT www.g4jnt.com 2009/3/16 Gary - G4WGT > *Andy,* > > * * > > *OK, I will insert an attenuator at the antenna socket (that=92s an easy > move) & watch how it performs. It is switched at 10dB steps so I will star= t > at 10db of course.* > > * * > > *Cheers,* > > * * > > *Gary.* > > * * > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Andy Talbot > *Sent:* 16 March 2009 20:45 > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: Syncback software > > > > Doesn't matter which - just total system gain. That S/W works best if the > noise threshold rides at about 10dB above the baseline, then it allows fo= r > up to 70 - 80dB of signal peaks. > > > Andy G4JNT > www.g4jnt.com > > 2009/3/16 Gary - G4WGT > > Alan, > > When you wrote :- > > my only comment is that you may have too much gain in the system. > > Are you meaning sound card or receiver gain? > > Gary. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Alan Melia > Sent: 16 March 2009 19:38 > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software > > Hi Gary my only comment is that you may have too much gain in the system. > It > is sometimes better to have the noise further down nearer the axis. > > I am afraid there is a major problem with this kind of beacon, when the > fading period is shorter than the sampling interval, so you dont really > know > what the path is doing. The only reliable points are the peaks, the trough= s > dont really mean anything without some very sophisticated analysis and > probably two spaced receivers. However it does give a snapshot of the band > without taking up too much bandwidth (this was what was required for 5MHz > too). Despite all the data collected very little analysis has actually be > done on the 5MHz data collected by this program. The one succesfull bit of > work was that published in Radcom by Marcis Walden G0IJZ. I used it for > some > time whilst Andy was testing the Poldhu beacon on 160m and also during the > 1st two months that ran. I was certainly surprised by the daytime path on > 160m from here. I have seen the data collected in Canada via Joe Craig > VO1NA > and it is difficult to see how to use it. > > Still if you dont collect the data you will never know!! > > Alan G3NYK > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary - G4WGT" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:35 PM > Subject: RE: LF: RE: Syncback software > > > > Hi Graham, LF, > > > > > > > > The original HTML Code for the 2 minute refresh is still inserted into > the > > page format, so upload is 30 minute intervals with Syncback & 2 minute > > refresh. I have left the refresh in case I revert back to the original > > grabber page. I will look at changing it if I continue to use the beacon > > chart upload. > > > > > > > > I would like to have feedback from the LF group regarding the page, if > you > > check it out periodically, is it useful to you, what are you looking for= . > > > > > > > > You can view the chart on my web site at :- > > > > > > > > http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/grabber3.html > > > > > > > > 73 > > > > > > > > Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham > > Sent: 16 March 2009 17:20 > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software > > > > > > > > Hi Gary, > > > > > > > > The page seemed to refresh quite often ... are there two settings ? > > > > > > > > G .. > > > > > > > > From: Gary - G4WGT > > > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:40 AM > > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > > Subject: RE: LF: RE: Syncback software > > > > > > > > Hi Graham, LF, > > > > > > > > You wrote :- > > > > >>>Upload is set at 5 minute intervals and auto refresh at 2 minute > > intervals. <<< that could be backed off to 15 mins as the beacon only > > sends every 15 ?? > > > > > > > > I mentioned in my previous mail to ignore the text on the page as it was > > originally for grabber 1 for when I upgrade the web site (to a new desig= n > & > > better navigation etc), also mentioned is that upload is every 30 > minutes. > > > > > > > > If the uploaded chart proves useful or interesting to operators & viewer= s > > then I will change the text & make it a permanent feature for the > > foreseeable future. > > > > > > > > BTW :- > > > > > > > > For those of you who are not familiar with the chart - > > > > > > > > The RED trace is Andy's (G4JNT) beacon signal & the BLACK trace is the > noise > > level at my QTH. > > > > > > > > The Blue & GREEN are not in use & should be ignored on this chart as the= y > > are for the other beacons used when monitoring on the 5MHz allocation. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Gary - G4WGT > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham > > Sent: 15 March 2009 22:17 > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software > > > > > > > > Gary.. > > > > > > > > That looks good ... 0500 looks best time for a qso .. see you then Smil= e > > emoticon > > > > > > > > >>>Upload is set at 5 minute intervals and auto refresh at 2 minute > > intervals. <<< that could be backed off to 15 mins as the beacon only > > sends every 15 ?? > > > > > > > > the 15 db over the noise in day time is the same at this qth .. looks > like > > the big dips round 1900 where just when we where testing .. typical > hihi > > > > > > > > tnx- G .. > > > > > > > > From: Gary - G4WGT > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:55 PM > > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > > Subject: LF: RE: Syncback software > > > > > > > > LF, > > > > > > > > I have now got the software, Syncback running correctly (I think). > > > > > > > > The purpose of this is to upload the chart from Andy's beacon as receive= d > > here to my web site periodically, ie. every 30 minutes. > > > > > > > > I now have a receiver running 24/7 monitoring Andy,s beacon on 503.7KHz.= . > > > > > > > > You can view the chart on my web site at :- > > > > > > > > http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/grabber3.html > > > > > > > > For the moment ignore the text on the page as it is originally designed > to > > use with the 500KHz grabber when I renew my web site design. If it is a > > useful upload I will make it a permanent feature but may have to extend > the > > frequency coverage of grabber 1 so not to overload the PC with operation= s > > which will cause the PC to struggle. > > > > > > > > Let me have your comments please. > > > > > > > > 73 > > > > > > > > Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT > > Sent: 15 March 2009 16:10 > > To: LF -RSGB LF Group > > Subject: LF: Syncback software > > > > > > > > Hi LF, > > > > > > > > If anyone is using Syncback software & can help, please. > > > > > > > > I am tying to upload a file to my website who's filename does not change= , > > only the file size changes. I tried to do it with Argo-upload but failed > so > > I downloaded Syncback & still failing. > > > > > > > > Syncback gives me the following message :- > > > > > > > > ********************************** > > > > Can connect, but unable to change to destination directory: > > > > /chart01.bmp:not a directory > > > > ********************************** > > > > The Syncback help does not give me the answer. > > > > > > > > Any help will be appreciated > > > > > > > > Or > > > > > > > > Will Argo-Upload do it? > > > > > > > > Or > > > > > > > > Is there something else to do it? > > > > > > > > Thanks in anticipation, > > > > > > > > 73, > > > > > > > > Gary - G4WGT - IO83QP. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: > 03/14/09 > > 06:54:00 > > > > _____ > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2003 - Release Date: > 03/15/09 > > 14:07:00 > > > > > > > > --001636c5b1f70703d8046542c865 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don't destroy your noise figure though.=A0 But at HF you can probab= ly get away with 20 dB at least.

Andy =A0G4JNT
www= .g4jnt.com


2009/3/16 Gary - G4WGT <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>

Andy,

=A0

OK, I will inse= rt an attenuator at the antenna socket (that=92s an easy move) & watch h= ow it performs. It is switched at 10dB steps so I will start at 10db of cour= se.

=A0

Cheers,<= /font>

=A0

Gary.

=A0

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf=20= Of Andy Talbot
Sent: 16 March 2009 20:45=20


To: rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org
Subject:= Re: LF: RE: Syncback software

=A0

Doesn't matter which - just total system gain.=A0 That S/W works best i= f the noise threshold rides at about 10dB above the baseline,=A0 then it all= ows for up to 70 - 80dB of signal peaks.

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
Andy =A0G4JNT
www.g4jnt.com

2009/3/16 Gary - G4WGT <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>

Alan,

When you wrote :-

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">my only comment is that you may have too much= gain in the system.

Are you meaning sound card or receiver gain?

Gary.



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= /a>

[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Alan Melia
Sent= : 16 March 2009 19:38

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF= : RE: Syncback software

Hi Gary my only comment is that you may have too much gain in the system= . It
is sometimes better to have the noise further down nearer the axis..=

I am afraid there is a major problem with this kind of beacon, when=20= the
fading period is shorter than the sampling interval, so you dont really know=
what the path is doing. The only reliable points are the peaks, the trou= ghs
dont really mean anything without some very sophisticated analysis an= d
probably two spaced receivers. However it does give a snapshot of the bandwithout taking up too much bandwidth (this was what was required for 5MHz<= br>too). Despite all the data collected very little analysis has actually be=
done on the 5MHz data collected by this program. The one succesfull bit ofwork was that published in Radcom by Marcis Walden G0IJZ. I used it for so= me
time whilst Andy was testing the Poldhu beacon on 160m and also during= the
1st two months that ran. I was certainly surprised by the daytime path on160m from here. I have seen the data collected in Canada via Joe Craig VO1N= A
and it is difficult to see how to use it.

Still if you dont coll= ect the data you will never know!!

Alan G3NYK




----- Original Message -----
From: &quo= t;Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: LF: RE: Syncback softwa= re


> Hi Graham, LF,
>
>
>
> The origin= al HTML Code for the 2 minute refresh is still inserted into the
> pag= e format, so upload is 30 minute intervals with Syncback & 2 minute
> refresh. I have left the refresh in case I revert back to the original<= br>> grabber page. I will look at changing it if I continue to use the be= acon
> chart upload.
>
>
>
> I would like to h= ave feedback from the LF group regarding the page, if you
> check it out periodically, is it useful to you, what are you looking fo= r.
>
>
>
> You can view the chart on my web site at=20= :-
>
>
>
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/g= rabber3.html
>
>
>
> 73
>
>
>
> Gary - G4WGT= .
>
>
>
>
>
> =A0 _____
>
>=20= From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham
&= gt; Sent: 16 March 2009 17:20
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software
>
>
>
>=20= Hi Gary,
>
>
>
> The page seemed to =A0refresh quite= often ... are there two settings ?
>
>
>
> G ..
>
>
>
> From: Gary - G4WGT <mailto:g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>
><= br>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:40 AM
>
> To: rsgb_lf_group@bla= cksheep.org
>
> Subject: RE: LF: RE: Syncback software
>
>
><= br>> Hi Graham, LF,
>
>
>
> You wrote :-
><= br>> >>>Upload is set at 5 minute intervals and auto refresh at=20= 2 minute
> intervals. <<< that could be backed off to =A015 mins as the b= eacon only
> sends every 15 ??
>
>
>
> I menti= oned in my previous mail to ignore the text on the page as it was
> or= iginally for grabber 1 for when I upgrade the web site (to a new design
&
> better navigation etc), also mentioned is that upload is every= 30 minutes.
>
>
>
> If the uploaded chart proves us= eful or interesting to operators & viewers
> then I will change th= e text & make it a permanent feature for the
> foreseeable future.
>
>
>
> BTW :-
>
&= gt;
>
> For those of you =A0who are not familiar with the chart=20= -
>
>
>
> The RED trace is Andy's (G4JNT) beacon= signal & the BLACK trace is the
noise
> level at my QTH.
>
>
>
> The Blue &= ; GREEN are not in use & should be ignored on this chart as they
>= are for the other beacons used when monitoring on the 5MHz allocation.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Gary -=20= G4WGT
>
>
>
>
>
> =A0 _____
>
&= gt; From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham
&= gt; Sent: 15 March 2009 22:17
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software
>
>
>
>=20= Gary..
>
>
>
> That looks good =A0... 0500 looks bes= t time for a qso .. see you then Smile
> emoticon
>
>
>
> >>>Upload is set at 5 minute intervals and auto refres= h at 2 minute
> intervals. <<< that could be backed off to=20= =A015 mins as the beacon only
> sends every 15 ??
>
>
>
> the =A015 db over the noise in day time is the =A0same at this=20= qth .. looks
like
> the big dips round 1900 =A0where just when we w= here testing .. =A0typical hihi
>
>
>
> tnx- G .. >
>
>
> From: Gary - G4WGT <mailto:g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>
><= br>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:55 PM
>
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org
>
> Subject: LF: RE: Syncback software
>
>
>
&= gt; LF,
>
>
>
> I have now got the software, Syncbac= k running correctly (I think).
>
>
>
> The purpose o= f this is to upload the chart from Andy's beacon as received
> here to my web site periodically, ie. every 30 minutes.
>
>=
>
> I now have a receiver running 24/7 monitoring Andy,s beacon= on 503.7KHz.
>
>
>
> You can view the chart on my w= eb site at :-
>
>
>
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/grabber= 3.html
>
>
>
> For the moment ignore the text on= the page as it is originally designed to
> use with the 500KHz grabber when I renew my web site design. If it is a=
> useful upload I will make it a permanent feature but may have to ex= tend
the
> frequency coverage of grabber 1 so not to overload the P= C with operations
> which will cause the PC to struggle.
>
>
>
> Le= t me have your comments please.
>
>
>
> 73
>>
>
> Gary - G4WGT.
>
>
>
> =A0 ___= __
>
> From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> [mailto:owner-rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT
> Sent: 15 March 2009 16:10
> To: LF -RSGB LF Group
> Subject= : LF: Syncback software
>
>
>
> Hi LF,
>
&g= t;
>
> If anyone is using Syncback software & can help, plea= se.
>
>
>
> I am tying to upload a file to my website who&#= 39;s filename does not change,
> only the file size changes. I tried t= o do it with Argo-upload but failed
so
> I downloaded Syncback &= ; still failing.
>
>
>
> Syncback gives me the following message :-
&= gt;
>
>
> **********************************
>
&g= t; Can connect, but unable to change to destination directory:
>
> /chart01.bmp:not a directory
>
> **************************= ********
>
> The Syncback help does not give me the answer.
&= gt;
>
>
> Any help will be appreciated
>
>
>
> Or
>
>
>
> Will Argo-Upload do it?
&= gt;
>
>
> Or
>
>
>
> Is there some= thing else to do it?
>
>
>
> Thanks in anticipation,=
>
>
>
> 73,
>
>
>
> Gary - G4WG= T - IO83QP.
>
>
>
> =A0 _____
>
>
>= ; No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14= /09
> 06:54:00
>
> =A0 _____
>
>
> No vi= rus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2003 - Release Date: 03/15= /09
> 14:07:00
>
>


=A0


--001636c5b1f70703d8046542c865--