Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31777 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2003 21:53:32 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 22 Jan 2003 21:53:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 19883 invoked by uid 10001); 22 Jan 2003 21:53:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2003 21:53:31 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.12) id 18bShM-0001Lp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:46:16 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.8] (helo=imo-m05.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18bShI-0001LZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:46:12 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.f.7ff3b12 (4328) for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:45:37 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:45:37 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: Re: LF: w3eee.com -10dB Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030202000707040107040704" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=6.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.43 X-Spam-Level: * X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030202000707040107040704 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Steve and LF-Group,

thanks for inserting the 10dB-attenuation at W3EEE: last night's plot definitely proved it's value and allowed an evaluation of the path budget from Central Eu into the USA. During the  -7dB-peak between 0630 and 0700, the noise curves apparently replicated the signal, supporting Steve's point that displayed SNR is actually limited (to about 30dB) by the modulation sidebands.

An extrapolation of the noise during the nearest troughs (about -43dB) would have given 36dB SNR at the peak. Gaining 16dB by going from 0.4Hz to 10mHz and allowing some 3dB for the  peak-maximum-type noise evaluation, SNR from DCF's 40kW EMRP was 55dB. A 1W E(D)RP amateur station would have produced 48.5dB less signal or 6.5dB SNR, good enough for an "M" report. But, as Alan has said, a UK-to-East-Coast path could have been significantly stronger.

A detailed look on the sideband-spectrum during many FSK telegrams (see image) revealed a number of gaps where its intensity is another 30dB less than close to space frequency; good channels for noise measurements would be near 138563, 138634, 138765 or 138966Hz. Another approach might be to take a little advantage of the relatively short telegram duration by using true-rms averaging rather than peak-hold in the noise channels, although I'm not quite sure how to tell SpecLab to do just that.

73 de Markus, DF6NM
 --------------030202000707040107040704 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="dbf39_burst_10_small.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="dbf39_burst_10_small.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDABQODxIPDRQSEBIXFRQYHjIhHhwcHj0sLiQySUBM S0dARkVQWnNiUFVtVkVGZIhlbXd7gYKBTmCNl4x9lnN+gXz/2wBDARUXFx4aHjshITt8U0ZT fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHz/wAAR CAErALQDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAGgABAAIDAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMFAgQGAf/EAD4QAAEDAgME BwcCAwgDAAAAAAEAAgMEEQUSIRYxQVMTFVFhkZPRBhQiVXGS0jKBQlKhIyQmM2Jy4fCDscH/ xAAXAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQID/8QAGREBAAIDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABFRAQIS/9oA DAMBAAIRAxEAPwDjEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQd9sRhvPq/vb+KbEY bz6v72/iuO63xL5hV+c71TrfEvmFX5zvVY52sdjsRhvPq/vb+KbEYbz6v72/iuO63xL5hV+c 71TrfEvmFX5zvVOdrHY7EYbz6v72/imxGG8+r+9v4rjut8S+YVfnO9U63xL5hV+c71Tnax2O xGG8+r+9v4psRhvPq/vb+K47rfEvmFX5zvVOt8S+YVfnO9U52sdjsRhvPq/vb+KbEYbz6v72 /iuO63xL5hV+c71TrfEvmFX5zvVOdrHY7EYbz6v72/imxGG8+r+9v4rjut8S+YVfnO9U63xL 5hV+c71Tnax2OxGG8+r+9v4psRhvPq/vb+K47rfEvmFX5zvVOt8S+YVfnO9U52sdjsRhvPq/ vb+KbEYbz6v72/iuO63xL5hV+c71TrfEvmFX5zvVOdrHY7EYbz6v72/imxGG8+r+9v4rjut8 S+YVfnO9U63xL5hV+c71Tnax2OxGG8+r+9v4psRhvPq/vb+K47rfEvmFX5zvVOt8S+YVfnO9 U52sdjsRhvPq/vb+KbEYbz6v72/iuO63xL5hV+c71TrfEvmFX5zvVOdrHY7EYbz6v72/ii47 rfEvmFX5zvVFOdrGkimz0/Kk8weiZ6flSeYPRdoxaShRTZ6flSeYPRM9PypPMHokYslCimz0 /Kk8weiZ6flSeYPRIxZKFFNnp+VJ5g9Ez0/Kk8weiRiyUKKbPT8qTzB6Jnp+VJ5g9EjFkoUU 2en5UnmD0TPT8qTzB6JGLJQops9PypPMHomen5UnmD0SMWShRTZ6flSeYPRM9PypPMHokYsl Cimz0/Kk8weimpI6epqGxZJG5uOcH/4kYslpoulHs7TuZmZM9w42sozgVMHEdJLpxy/8JGLJ c8i36ynp6R7Wlr33F7h4t/6Wtnp+VJ5g9EjFkoUU2en5UnmD0RIxZKFFeex0rmY/TxgMLX5r ksBIsx24kXH7L32PlczHqeMBha/NclgJ0Y7cSLj9llVEiuPZ2hFRPNVS05qIaRmcxBpd0jzo 1thrqddxGmqvMVe6Cf2kqIXOjnYKYNkYbOaDa4B3i9gg4tFce1bGs9oqwMaGglpsBbUtBJ/c m66HLTbfZull94/k6IZP8r+bNfd3eqDhkVthtHQzUj6iujqI4Irh8zZmgPdwYxpbqf303myq UBERAREQERW2E0sPTF/v1PmNPNdmWS7bxOvf4badx4aXQVKKaogjhy9HVQ1F736MPGX65mhQ oC3MKNq6P91prawyxroweKDrmVDIiMrczwL/AAtuLrIzuJc+O2o3OuoA3JG5rAWm1hYaLHNO GNaCwuJs74boKHHJBJUMcLbjuVYrPHGCOoYGgDTcFWICIiCajq5qGpZUUz8krL5XWBtcW49x XtHVzUNSyopn5JWXyusDa4sd/cVAiAt44xXOnnnfMHvqA0Sh8bXNfa1rtItpbsWiiCWpqJqu d89RIZJXm7nHitjrWt6y6w6b+98zI3+XLutbctJEG6zFaplNFT3ifFFfI2SCN+W5ubFwPFaS IgIiICIiApaed1PIXsAJLHs17HNLT/QqJEBERAUtMXCojLP1ZtFEtihF6uMDfdB0g6YNHS21 FrBevJizZul11/VaywfnLWslLzYghwWcrJC1rZScoN8wdwQUGKvzzt37uO9aK3sXblq9Nxat FAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAU1Jf3mPLvuoVJTktnYW7wdEHRFz42OMsjC0a2bvS MieK8cu4/qdx/wC9yg6dgBBsX/ym+/uWTZg5uUjNc6DcR4oKzFXA1Isc1hvWitnEARVOvbuW sgIiICIiAiIgIiICIiAiIgIiICIiAiIgLOG/StsbG6wWcJIlaWi5ugtOkc39IcH7iQ0WPevO lOW7GDU8TuK9lie+MuL3AjeL20UraaKZl3AngbOugqakuMvxuzG29QrYrouiqC3cOH0WugIi IN6gw9tTS1dVNMYoaUMzZGZ3EuNhYXA7eK3JsB92mxEVNTaKhyZnRx5nPzn4bAkfvr4rVwuf omVLPfWU2drfglh6SOSx3EWNiN4Njx3K4nxiknrcYkp6g00lSIhBUFrhYNtmF2guF7dnDWyD RmwH3abERU1NoqHJmdHHmc/OfhsCR++vitDFaB2GYhNSPeHmMj4gLXBFx/Qq6qsToKqXG4op BAysMRie9hDSWH4icoJ11O762VZ7QVkNfjNTU05JieQGki17NAv/AEQT9Q/4j6o95/8AL0f+ jNuv+29aEOHV08QkgoqiWN257InEH9wF0W0Me1nvHv8AL1b2Xfl/y7fp/wB3cqzD5KWloOkp 62GHEJbtc+Vsl4G7rMytOpH8XAaDtQUyIiAiIgIiICmpKf3mVzM2W0b33tf9LC6372soQrXD MSfHKWPFK1jYJQCaeO5PRusCctzc2HffjdBVIpqiqkqcvSNhbl3dHCyPxygXUKApaU5ahhte xUSyjcWvBbvCDoZQ6RlnuytcP0m2q9e0tY1rXNFt4BI0VdDVyhpEurRvB32WPTHMXdE+x7Dc oIcReH1F2m4stRZzOLpCTf8AfesEBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBSU7S+ZjRvJUal pn5J2O32KC6bCGsL3ND7DW9/6BeExNaCWOyv0FrWUzJc4BEYYTxtxWRIa43cy99A4oKCsjMU 5BO/UaKBbuKuLqgXte3ArSQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQFNSDNUxi19b2UK2cPOW tiPeg6IvMkbckYY/+Vx4LGZomDG2ayS+o7v3UpOcOcYiCP4iLafVZOkkkYbfFbQhosPH0Qc3 ibBHVZALAN3LTVljbctS3/aq1AREQEVu32cxBxs2F5PcEHs5iBNhA8kbwAgqEVuPZzECSBA8 kcMqbO14NjE7wQVCK32cxC+XoH5uzKvNnq/lO8EFSittnq/lO8E2er+U7wQVKK22er+U7wTZ 2v5TvBBUorbZ6v5TvBNnq/lO8EFSittnq/lO8EHs7X8p3ggqUVts9X8p3gmz1fyneCCpWzh1 hWxE7gbrd2eruU7wWxQ4HWQ1LXvidYdyCykIliOZ7g219EgDY4ssZMdz9brCWNsTpC4XcBq3 MvIszA1zdQToN9/BBR41f3oNJJsN5VeukxXCKusma+OI7tbBaOz1dyneCCpRW2z1dyneCILO kxWWtwbE5K0GaGHoT0YIBJL9NSCLaa6G/ctvE5ql+JYpFVVFsNgdHJPlYCSLNLGAG+pI7hvJ 7FyFPUz0ry+mmkheRYujeWm3Zos4q+shfI+GqnjfIbvc2QguPaddd58UHRnGJsTwjG6iVoDW vgcyMm4aMwFtf9ov33T2hxqroscq4YpHZAWkAnd8Ddy5xtdWNqHVDaqcTOFnSCQ5iOwm9+A8 FC97pHufI4ue43c5xuSe0lB37MQbH7YSULY5QZHZnO6UZb9EP4ct9wHH0VThmMzUmFxz1sbB Ssb0cLbuEk7hpYa2DRpd1u7Urm/fKn3n3n3iX3jm5zn3W3792izhxGugiEUFZURRt3MZK4Af sCg39pa+2smqbS1/MKpkQXO0tfzCm0tfzCqZEFztLX8wptLX8wqmRBdbS1/MK36XGWVjZIZq uoJfTy529A2w/s3E2OfXw17lyyzhlfC8ujdlcWuaTbg4EH+hKC8qPaOZuX3apmk35ukiDLdl rON1DtLX8wqmRBc7S1/MK2KL2grJqlkcknwlc8tjDwDWRZt10HUzNa55lO86b96zgjDBcO0v oCVHJJdhbG06jeLad6yEuSIANOptZ1wg0sSxyrpJxHHKbAa3WntLX8wqHHTeqadL5eCrEFzt LX8woqZEBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQFJTvEczXO3AqNesF3gWvqg6CKuZK1sdhGRusd AvDVvfIf7VpaP+9q020cYtnuwOHYTb0XoooRdpc3uJdr4INKskMk2v8ADoNbrXWczckjm9iw QEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQFJAQJmF266jWUesjfqguekjLbNc5zTvaRbRYvawkB 18rTwuSjmwMY1wfmtuIuSD9V7OCQySKR5v32CCur8vT/AA3tbitZTVWbpjnNyoUBERARWmEY Y2upa2odHPMacMywwaOeXG2+x3AHgp6TCIKk4lJFHWSspSwMpw0NlcXOtY6O3WPDXuQUiK4i w6jMeKVLvejDRlgbE60chLnWs42IFrHhr3blq41QMw3FaikY8vZGRlc4a2IB18UGii6bZf8A xH7l0VX7hz8v+i/6rW/VoqajwqqrsgphFI598rOnYHm2/wCEm/DsQaSIiAiIgIiICItihgbU TuY8kARSP07Wsc4f1CDXREQFnBYytzWtfisFlH+tv1CC3JYxuZjgxrTYjSxWcj4sgcGubfd9 fotaWT4HCNob2uSF+WI2aZLntKDTrL9Obm+igU1U4vmJIAPYFCgIiILHDq2CGgr6Op6RrKoM tJG0OLS119xIvf6rfqccpqybFhKyaKKu6PK5oD3NyEWuLjf9dO9c+iDoKnHKasmxYSsmiiru jyuaA9zchFri43/XTvVbjVe3E8VqKuNhYyQjKHHWwAGvgtFEHQdeU21nW2SX3f8AlsM/+Xl3 Xtv71q0tZQw4WYGyVEFRNcVErIWvLm30Y05hZvb2/RVKICIiAiIgIiICs8PxergflkrqhsTY ZGtb0jrA9G4NsOGtvoqxEE9TWVNVl95qJpst8vSPLrfS6gREBEQIPcxF7blNDKWgA30O9YGN wF3bk6I3ILgO8lB5K7NI4jiVgvXDKSDwXiAiIgIiICIiAiIgIiICIiAiIgIiICIiAg3og3oN twjaw65u6/FSBjRHqbcQW6qMOblGRwc7jfj9F46UZgGxhobrZBBKAHm17d6wWUjs7y48VigI iICIiAiIgIiICIiAiIgIiICIp5KSphhZNLTzMifbK9zCGuuLix46IIEREBEQC5QZMa4n4Rqv Q19za91IWkNs4AdjgvCXufYE349iCFF69pa4grxAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQF13tHTtlm xqaKSeJ8Bg6VvSXZMCAB8Nha2h1JXIhTyVlTNC2GWomfEy2VjnktbbQWHDRBArPCIaV8FZJV R5jG1uR0jZDC0l2uYs1Btu4b1WKWnqZ6V5fTTSQvIsXRvLSR2aIL9uF0dNLjElbTFjaQxhkQ eZQ3Od+haTwtciwOtyozRUTG4xVNo5Q2m6LooKrM0tznW4BB+mu463VNFWVMMz5oqiZkr75n teQ519Tc8dUjrKmGZ00VRKyV98z2vIc65ubnjqg2K6n6Kqky076Rt79DI4ktHZcgH/ha8jSy xcGkHhdYF7pcz5HF7nOuXE3JJ3krME5LcAdEELiCSRuXi9d+orxAREQf/9k= --------------030202000707040107040704--