X-GM-THRID: 1234752644316022630 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.35.22.8 with SMTP id z8cs340028pyi; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 02:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.29.12 with SMTP id g12mr2101319ugj.1177580595123; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 02:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id g30si3153215ugd.2007.04.26.02.43.11; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 02:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Hh0Pa-0005at-Kp for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:37:14 +0100 Received: from [193.82.59.130] (helo=relay2.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Hh0PZ-0005ak-O6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:37:13 +0100 Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.9]) by relay2.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hh0PY-0001PO-D1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:37:13 +0100 Received: from GandalfG8@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id l.c94.f080612 (48624) for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:37:04 -0400 (EDT) From: GandalfG8@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:37:03 EDT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,AWL=-0.829,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: WINRADIO on 500 and 137 KHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1177580223" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2082 -------------------------------1177580223 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 26/04/2007 02:43:32 GMT Daylight Time, dd7pc@gmx.de writes: To all, I like to get a better receiver and have interest to buy a WINRADIO (SDR) receiver. Has anyone experience about the RX Sensitivity of this receiver on 500 and 137KHz? -------------------- Hi Marco I've used the Winradio 313i as far down as 17 KHz, using a miniwhip to listen to SAQ, as well as for MSF on 60 KHz and it works well. General LF performance with a Wellbrook loop is also excellent. Claimed range for the 313 is down to 9 KHz, and CW sensitivity is specified as -122dBm (0.18uV) between 150 and 500 KHz with a comment that the sensitivity gradually drops below 150KHz, figure quoted at 100 KHz is -113dBm. Although sensitivity is falling off there's no deliberate attenuation across Medium Wave that you often find with HF receivers. If you're looking for serious LF you will not want to consider any of the earlier Winradio wideband products, only the later G3xx series, and I would personally recommend the 313 only. The 303 with professional demodulator is the next best option but still not as good and the software feels clunky in comparison. The 3xx series wideband products, 305 and 315, whilst much better at HF and below, on paper at least, than earlier wideband offerings, still don't quite match the 303 and 313 respectively so would avoid those too unless wideband is a must. Unlike some fully SDR receivers, using open source software, with Winradio you're really going to be stuck with just the Winradio control software but should be able to feed Spectran etc, although I haven't tried that. Bob mentioned earlier being able to record up to 192 KHz bandwidth with his SDR and that's something else the Winradio can't do. It can record but has a conventional hardware front end with a 20KHz roofing filter at the first IF so recordings are limited to 20 KHz. Personally, I see this as an advantage rather than disadvantage. Much as I'm a great fan of SDR and the softrock kits in particular, I don't think any of the more "purist" reasonable cost SDRs are capable of matching the 313 on overall LF/HF performance. I'm sure the day will come, but not yet. For relatively narrow coverage though the softrocks do take some beating. Depending upon your needs, sensitivity may not be your only limiting factor. The WR313, coupled with its spectrum display, is great for spotting weak signals just above the noise floor, the DSP filtering is very good, and there's a range of further software options available. Some online reviews complaining about minimum filter bandwidths are out of date, in that later software revisions improved things considerably, but I have found, on MSF signals for example, that I could pull information out of the sidebands with a Cushman SLM fitted with a 75 Hz crystal filter that the WR couldn't find. Not that anything else I had could find it either:-) You might want to join the Winradio 3 series group on Yahoo, WiNRADiO_G3_Series, and also ask your question there. You'll find a copy of the WR313 user manual in their archives with the full spec in it, or I could email you copy, it's around 1.2Mb. I'm a great enthusiast of the WR313, it performs well at HF and LF and I consider the live spectrum display and filtering etc to be excellent, but I'm always wary about recommending any radio for a particular purpose without suggesting too that, if at all possible, you try it before you buy it!! I think this applies even more to PC controlled radios, which some of us love....and others hate:-) regards Nigel GM8PZR -------------------------------1177580223 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 26/04/2007 02:43:32 GMT Daylight Time, dd7pc@gmx.de=20 writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>To=20 all,
I like to get a better receiver and have interest to buy a WINRADI= O=20 (SDR) receiver. Has anyone experience about the RX Sensitivity of this=20 receiver on 500 and 137KHz?
--------------------
Hi Marco
 
I've used the Winradio 313i as far down as 17 KHz, using a miniwhi= p to=20 listen to SAQ, as well as for MSF on 60 KHz and it works well.
General LF performance with a Wellbrook loop is also excellent.
 
Claimed range for the 313 is down to 9 KHz, and CW sensitivity=20 is specified as -122dBm (0.18uV) between 150 and 500 KHz with a comment= =20 that the sensitivity gradually drops below 150KHz, figure quoted at 100 KHz=20= is=20 -113dBm.
 
Although sensitivity is falling off there's no deliberate attenuat= ion=20 across Medium Wave that you often find with HF receivers.
 
If you're looking for serious LF you will not want to consider any of t= he=20 earlier Winradio wideband products, only the later G3xx series, and I would=20 personally recommend the 313 only.
The 303 with professional demodulator is the next best option but still= not=20 as good and the software feels clunky in comparison.
The 3xx series wideband products, 305 and 315, whilst much better at HF= and=20 below, on paper at least, than earlier wideband offerings, still don't quite= =20 match the 303 and 313 respectively so would avoid those too unless wide= band=20 is a must.
  
Unlike some fully SDR receivers, using open source software, with=20 Winradio you're really going to be stuck with just the Winradio control= =20 software but should be able to feed Spectran etc, although I haven't tr= ied=20 that.
Bob mentioned earlier being able to record up to 192 KHz bandwidth with= his=20 SDR and that's something else the Winradio can't do.
It can record but has a conventional hardware front end with a 20K= Hz=20 roofing filter at the first IF so recordings are limited to 20 KHz.
Personally, I see this as an advantage rather than disadvantage.
Much as I'm a great fan of SDR and the softrock kits in particular, I d= on't=20 think any of the more "purist" reasonable cost SDRs are capable of matching=20= the=20 313 on overall LF/HF performance. I'm sure the day will come, but not yet.
For relatively narrow coverage though the softrocks do take some=20 beating.
 
Depending upon your needs, sensitivity may not be your only limiti= ng=20 factor.
The WR313, coupled with its spectrum display, is great for spotting wea= k=20 signals just above the noise floor, the DSP filtering is very good, and= =20 there's a range of further software options available.
Some online reviews complaining about minimum filter=20 bandwidths are out of date, in that later software revisions improved=20 things considerably, but I have found, on MSF signals for example, that I=20 could pull information out of the sidebands with a Cushman SLM fit= ted=20 with a 75 Hz crystal filter that the WR couldn't find.
Not that anything else I had could find it either:-)
 
You might want to join the Winradio 3 series group on Yahoo,=20 WiNRADiO_G3_Series, and also ask your question there.
You'll find a copy of the WR313 user manual in their archives=20 with the full spec in it, or I could email you copy, it's around=20 1.2Mb.
 
I'm a great enthusiast of the WR313, it performs well at HF and LF and=20 I consider the live spectrum display and filtering etc to be excellent,= but=20 I'm always wary about recommending any radio for a particular purpose withou= t=20 suggesting too that, if at all possible, you try it before you buy= =20 it!!
I think this applies even more to PC controlled radios, which some= of=20 us love....and others hate:-)
 
regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
 
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