Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.130]) by air-di01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDI011-eab64c2778f613c; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 12:14:46 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BEBD538000155; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 12:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OSuTp-0002WM-MR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 17:13:13 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OSuTp-0002WD-22 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 17:13:13 +0100 Received: from smtp820.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.189.247]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OSuTn-0006Up-Dc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 17:13:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 63948 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2010 16:13:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:Importance:X-MIMEOLE; b=yVFrdyQNWzG0vbx2V9ijBi8TvbvhEgnWFrxsYs/ln8Aw8mxZn2eVMPCfsvgkX/INBXSgBk8WcegD0rKx8tsXsEIUifZBtwQdn0uI2paLwXhrqS3O0xQQRPhLgf7UofQfu+bwhYrtDGSq6aiFWDX4jDWPhqRf1eKg+nZG6K7mQgg= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1277655185; bh=yHBnrjD54IpSSlDToAV9ZgqZT6yR7oGb1z6uRzmWneU=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:Importance:X-MIMEOLE; b=0MLHA+Gsfg/PCxIz2WuMIRd7r3mj4BIXFkAsZ/6VkAfudk9v6NVnLKP8oPg8oEyq/Wn/RMNOC+q8Ynspd9bvESZHJnyNHvPE7kIeca5cIZR8QA+8HVMYPNBLpKBc7k21yemdbIykTYd1+hHczytyT1Fx4lXBF/J8nGj675z1xM8= Received: from aquarids (ganymede444@86.132.158.50 with login) by smtp820.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2010 16:13:04 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: c8dPawiswBBxxmjSAvmKGJq150SoSoD6d8MTABSG9Now_xuQLZ9d X-YMail-OSG: ZVYuOY4VM1n8Y.Vy8_DqYsnzwF8vSHfHyiHT0O9_cSLjFGiMtjkGJAGp6f0w6yUkd8t9NfS8oLy9UiyY8C_Y7PZeN6Q42d8X4yp9Pw3ER5wJ2Q0YrT_HPzcEUs63Haycx19BxFunXFcNDyMMLrJ7WuShtAFN77NhyJU1IRiIW_giPBIfk5.e.Sqjch3iMLFMmCoNwOVdLoRfcEKuRTjcfuXC87klFLtST3M7qxlvRfjJkiBYRCPmaULbLkKgX6UdBUpMy7yFf_l.35BpEPn6hvLN7tg- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Dave G3WCB" To: Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 17:13:04 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: FW: LF: VLF earth antenna article in wiki [Criggion SK] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01CB161C.0163BC80" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m228.2 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40824c2778eb3ea7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CB161C.0163BC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This got bounced last time.... Dave -----Original Message----- From: Dave G3WCB [mailto:ganymede444@btopenworld.com] Sent: 27 June 2010 14:42 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: VLF earth antenna article in wiki [Criggion SK] Dear LF, Criggion has gone, but Woofferton, just down the road near Ludlow, is= still on air. Admittedly, Woofferton is an HF station not an LF station, and= so is a bit off-topic for this group, but has lots of interesting big antenn= as and coils to admire nevertheless. See link below. http://www.bbceng.info/Operations/transmitter_ops/Reminiscences/Wooffe= rton/w oof50y-v2.pdf 73, Dave G3WCB -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of M0FMT Sent: 27 June 2010 09:36 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF earth antenna article in wiki Hi Group Perhaps not so grand as Herzostand Station but WT Station Crig= gion was build in a bit of a hurry and used the side of a Welsh "mountain"= as the far end achorage of the 16kc/s Antenna. Before its destruction in 2003= the station was entered via a Hanson slate quarry. I had the fun of workin= g there not many years before that on a few occations adding 21st centur= y EMP proof Fibre optic communication to a TX that use massive thermionic Va= lves! http://www.oswestry-history.co.uk/criggion-radio-station.html But as with all V / LF stations most of the RF went into the= ground anyway. 73 es GL petefmt I support www.NotSpotTelecom.Com your community Telco / ISP. --- On Sun, 27/6/10, Roger Lapthorn = wrote: From: Roger Lapthorn Subject: Re: LF: VLF earth antenna article in wiki To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sunday, 27 June, 2010, 8:52 I agree about the Wiki antenna: it is strung between the mountains, not using buried electrodes. Maybe we dreamers need to consult some textbooks on ELF/VLF antennas? Another data source should be any publicly available papers= about Project Sanguine antennas. IEEE Antennas and Propagation may have had= some references in the 1970s or 80s? a.. Military Communications: From Ancient Times to the 21s= t Century talks about the Wisconsin Project Sanguine antennas being 14= miles long and mounted on 40 foot poles. This was for 76Hz. These were in so= me sort of array and connected by 165 miles of cable (this info can be re= ad in the book extract on Amazon!). b.. ELF Communications Antennas by Burrows is an IEE publi= cation that must contain some useful information. Unfortunately these can be expensive to buy but I may be abl= e to read copies at the University Library here in Cambridge. Usually such= texts are highly mathematical whereas what I need is a good overview which= could be easily grasped without too much maths. 73s Roger G3XBM 2010/6/26 Stefan Sch=E4fer Hi Roger, VLF, Today Markus gave me the hint of an (at least for me) most interesting article in wikipedia. It is about a "earth" antenna like= we have it in principle and it shows that it can indeed compete with a traditi= onal marconi antenna. Maybe you know that since 10s of years but for me it= was new: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogstand_Radio_Station or in german http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funkstation_am_Herzogstand (m= ore detailed and with a picture of the antenna construction) 73, Stefan/DK7FC -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CB161C.0163BC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This=20 got bounced last time....
 
Dave
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave G3WC= B=20 [mailto:ganymede444@btopenworld.com]
Sent: 27 June 2010=20 14:42
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: RE= : LF: VLF=20 earth antenna article in wiki [Criggion SK]

Dear=20 LF,
 
Criggion has gone, but Woofferton, just down the road=20 near Ludlow, is still on air. Admittedly, Woofferton is an HF station= not an LF=20 station, and so is a bit off-topic for this group, but has lots of int= eresting=20 big antennas and coils to admire nevertheless.
 
See=20 link below.
 
 
73,=20 Dave G3WCB
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of=20 M0FMT
Sent: 27 June 2010 09:36
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: VLF earth an= tenna=20 article in wiki

Hi Group
 
Perhaps not so grand as Herzostand Station but WT Station= Criggion=20 was build in a bit of a hurry and used the side of a Welsh "mo= untain" as=20 the far end achorage of the 16kc/s Antenna. Before its destruc= tion in=20 2003 the station was entered via a Hanson slate quarry. I had= the fun of=20 working there not many years before that on a few occations ad= ding 21st=20 century EMP proof Fibre optic communication to a TX that= use=20 massive thermionic Valves!
 
But as with all V / LF stations most of the RF went into= the ground=20 anyway.

73 es GL petefmt

I support www.NotSpotTelecom.= Com your=20 community Telco / ISP.

--- On Sun, 27/6/10, Roger La= pthorn=20 <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

From:=20 Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>
Subject:= Re: LF: VLF=20 earth antenna article in wiki
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Sunday, 27 June, 2010,= =20 8:52

I agree about the Wiki antenna: it= is strung=20 between the mountains, not using buried electrodes.

M= aybe we=20 dreamers need to consult some textbooks on ELF/VLF antennas?=  =20 Another data source should be any publicly available papers= about=20 Project Sanguine antennas. IEEE Antennas and Propagation may= have had=20 some references in the 1970s or 80s?
Unfortunately these can be expensive= to buy but=20 I may be able to read copies at the University Library here= in=20 Cambridge.  Usually such texts are highly mathematical= whereas=20 what I need is a good overview which could be easily grasped= without=20 too much maths.

73s
Roger G3XBM

2010/6/26 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
Hi=20 Roger, VLF,

Today Markus gave me the hint of an (at= least for=20 me) most interesting article in wikipedia. It is about a= "earth"=20 antenna like we have it in principle and it shows that it= can indeed=20 compete with a traditional marconi antenna. Maybe you know= that=20 since 10s of years but for me it was new:

http://= en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogstand_Radio_Station

or=20 in german

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funkstation= _am_Herzogstand=20 (more detailed and with a picture of the antenna=20 construction)



73,=20 Stefan/DK7FC



<= BR>--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM=  =20  GQRP 1678      ISWL=20 G11088

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