Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.9]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v128.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE041-5eae4bb8f6cd1bf; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 16:30:05 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 885B638000081; Sun, 4 Apr 2010 16:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NyWQq-00068Q-Ig for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 21:28:32 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NyWQp-00068H-So for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 21:28:31 +0100 Received: from smtp102.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com ([76.13.13.241]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NyWQm-0000K9-9o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 21:28:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 31162 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2010 20:28:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=snet.net; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:X-MimeOLE:Importance:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator; b=TNQTA+CM5KQF0sULbqKlHjuO1QP8PvCvwPfJr9/LzrEwa7uc7JHUgiYUmBwIZdvMmslT2UIxSfXghN3GSVD8GXsRMocXbOc/kNTPJ5HQIVzOInPuKvq7710GL1/KCcWs0RR7tBCjrSCYeCNkuvNzR8Uh3qKFDGi3Vph/wlnCuWU= ; Received: from adsl-76-195-73-149.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net (paulc@76.195.73.149 with login) by smtp102.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with SMTP; 04 Apr 2010 13:28:20 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: .XXmOBOswBCkuxW404eTLsnd.RdCQPge3WAF X-YMail-OSG: KE0mCx4VM1mf_jjMkCxcAP1poX9Jgh7yxSs6ujVBaBuKplLPqycgEl94OjJ5WYXwZEAReItPBTxgsPbnJDeHu85nuLWH5gNxjyZQoYIVxQSdXkWpgv2KNwqQz.11wDIZT_MDV6RRx4eZlUarjyIl_kl29GkIagPmDEMjZLiesNKlwuMnVKMG.XVh2TqtL.Z4JsOUNzGj6UES9upG64NI0rEAdArXZtdfGaLS731wORRwn5vrWJBKibt.hCKB7cLoBDbWb_dFXDBw.rAT4r2BAB0a3VjcynyqQcVC2Ivgytnov5xGzceMyIatGXbEhUGhDZCVG7vf3_s.qxhcxrPR5jTo.4a5mOe2LuYLWsCHrO362_5201LFT0B7Bg-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Paul A. Cianciolo" To: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 16:28:24 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1BD1@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Importance: Normal X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=0.879,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: W1VLF 9 Khz Antenna update Putting inductance near the top. Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0064_01CAD413.D957FD90" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/57055 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40094bb8f6cb68bb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01CAD413.D957FD90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0065_01CAD413.D957FD90" ------=_NextPart_001_0065_01CAD413.D957FD90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LF: Activity 3 Mar 2010Stefan=20 On page 60 and 61 of the Low Frequency Experimenters Handbook Peter Do= dd RSGB there is an example putting a coil near the top of the antenna In this case the transmitter is on 137 Khz and a of a portion (1/2) of= the "L" needed to resonate was moved near the top. According to measuremen= ts by Rik Strobbe ON7YD an increase of 4 to 5 db was measured. Do you think it would be worth the effort to put 1/4 of the total "L"= needed near the top I could do that very easily. PaulC W1VLF -----Original Message----- From: Stefan Sch=E4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On= Behalf Of Stefan Sch=E4fer Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 12:49 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: AW: W1VLF 9 Khz Antenna update Hello Paul,=20 This sounds really improving!! And this will give a much more effici= ent antenna as before. Also the HV problems will be reduced. Note that the= goal should not be to make the C as high as possible but first to make the antenna efficiency as high as possible. This is done be increasing the effective height and reducing all the losses. Thus i would recommend= now a combination out of option 2 and 3. Maybe you could check with G3YNKs= R-C bridge, if the losses are increased with option 3. You could use a bra= id of some meters to keep a distance to the trees although the wire is mount= ed on the trees.=20 But all in all it sounds very promising!=20 Option 1 is not so much improving i would say. The C would slightly increase but not the antenna efficiency i mean... What about the option to place the coil on the 40m tower? That would= be the best improvement you can do! Good luck! Do you already know who could be the next receiving ham station? ;-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Paul A. Cianc= iolo Gesendet: So 04.04.2010 17:18 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: W1VLF 9 Khz Antenna update Stefan,Group. An update on the W1VLF hopefully to be 9 KHZ antenna. The 55 meter wire sloping at 45 degrees measured 340 pf as you recal= l. The addition of 2 top hat wires has been made, each over 50 meters= long with a slope to the ground. Wire 1 is terminates at 11 meters above the ground and wire 2 termin= ates 20 meters above the ground. Antenna only =3D 340 pf Antenna and Wire 1 West =3D 650 pf=20 Antenna and wire 1 West and wire 2 East =3D 900 pf L to resonate at 9 KHZ now =3D 350 mHy. The L is now coming down to a reasonable size!! For the next step there are 3 possibilities: 1) Change the top 30 meters from a single wire, to 3 wires spread= 1 meter apart at the top to gain perhaps 100 more PF? 2) Get my neighbors permission to use his tree as a support for the= end rope on wire 1. This will increase wire 1 west about 40 meters and= raise the end from 10 meters to 20 meters. 200 PF more? 3) Run 2 more wires Wire 3 Northwest and Wire 4 Northeast each wou= ld be 20 to 30 meters long and terminate at 30 meters high. These would be= over a forest and I am not sure if this is my best option. It may yield more "C" and lot more losses?? Goal is to try to get antenna "C" to 1200 pf or more All ideas welcome. PauLC W1VLF -----Original Message----- From: Stefan Sch=E4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]= On Behalf Of Stefan Sch=E4fer Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:44 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: AW: Activity 3 Mar 2010 Mike, LF,=20 Wow! 5641km is really impressing! Congrats!! Is there such an activity planned for the "west-stations" as well?= We could do the same! I've never been slower than DFCW-10 on LF. Would be interesting :-= ) 73, Stefan/DK7FC ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Mike Dennis= on Gesendet: So 04.04.2010 12:09 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Activity 3 Mar 2010 An excellent day's activity on 137kHz yesterday with 5 countries received, the furthest easterly station received here and a QSO wi= th a new country. In the morining, OE5ODL and DJ6GT were received. During the UA tests, five stations were logged (see the attached screen grab - Argo set to QRSS30 and centred on 137.778kHz). The picture shows (from the top) UA0AET (5641km from me); RA3YO; RN3AGC; UA4WPF; and EW6GB who was first received as early as 1700U= TC. After the formal test I exchanged 'O' reports with EW6GB at 1902km= , using QRSS10. Well done to all concerned. Mike, G3XDV =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------=_NextPart_001_0065_01CAD413.D957FD90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LF: Activity 3 Mar 2010
S= tefan=20
 
O= n page 60 and 61=20 of the Low Frequency Experimenters Handbook Peter Dodd RSGB  ther= e is an=20 example putting a coil near the top of the antenna
I= n this case the=20 transmitter is on 137 Khz and a of a portion (1/2) of the "L" needed= to resonate=20 was moved near the top. According to measurements by Rik Strobbe= =20 ON7YD  an increase of 4 to 5 db  was measured.=
 
D= o you think it=20 would be worth the effort to put 1/4 of the total "L" needed near the= =20 top
I= could do that=20 very easily.
 
PaulC
W1VLF
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Stef= an Sch=E4fer=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Stefa= n=20 Sch=E4fer
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 12:49 PM
To:<= /B>=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: AW: W1VLF 9 Khz Ante= nna=20 update

Hello Pau= l,
 
This sounds really improv= ing!! And this=20 will give a much more efficient antenna as before. Also the HV probl= ems will=20 be reduced. Note that the goal should not be to make the C as high= as possible=20 but first to make the antenna efficiency as high as possible. This= is done be=20 increasing the effective height and reducing all the losses. Thus i= would=20 recommend now a combination out of option 2 and 3. Maybe you could= check with=20 G3YNKs R-C bridge, if the losses are increased with option 3. You co= uld use a=20 braid of some meters to keep a distance to the trees although the wi= re is=20 mounted on the trees.
But all in all it sounds= very promising!=20
Option 1 is not so much= improving i would=20 say. The C would slightly increase but not the antenna efficiency i= =20 mean...
 
What about the option to= place the coil=20 on the 40m tower? That would be the best improvement you can do!
 
Good luck!
 
Do you already know who= could be the next=20 receiving ham station? ;-)
 
73, Stefan/DK7FC

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org im=20 Auftrag von Paul A. Cianciolo
Gesendet: So 04.04.2010=20 17:18
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff:= LF: W1VLF=20 9 Khz Antenna update

Stefan,Group.
 
An update on=20 the W1VLF hopefully to be 9 KHZ antenna.
 
 
The 55 meter=20 wire sloping at 45 degrees measured 340 pf as you=20 recall.
The addition of=20 2 top hat wires has been made, each over 50 meters long with a slope= to the=20 ground.
 
Wire 1 is=20 terminates at 11 meters above the ground and wire 2 terminates 20 me= ters above=20 the ground.
 
Antenna only =3D=20 340 pf
 
Antenna=20 and  Wire 1 West  =3D 650 pf
 
Antenna=20 and  wire 1 West and wire 2  East  =3D 900 pf<= /FONT>
 
L to resonate=20 at 9 KHZ now =3D 350 mHy.
 
 
The L is now=20 coming down to a reasonable size!!
 
For the=20 next step there are 3 possibilities:
 
1) Change the=20 top 30 meters from a single wire,  to 3 wires spread 1 meter ap= art at the=20 top to gain perhaps 100 more PF?
 
 
2) Get my=20 neighbors permission to use his tree as a support for the end rope= on wire=20 1.  This will increase wire 1 west  about 40 meters and ra= ise the=20 end from 10 meters to 20 meters. 200 PF more?
 
 
3) Run 2 more=20 wires  Wire 3 Northwest and Wire 4 Northeast  each would= be 20 to 30=20 meters long and terminate at 30 meters high.   These would= be over a=20 forest and I am not sure if this is my best option.
It may yield=20 more "C" and lot more losses??
 
Goal is to try=20 to get antenna "C" to 1200 pf or more
 
All ideas=20 welcome.
 
PauLC
W1VLF
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From:= Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Ste= fan=20 Sch=E4fer
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:44 AM
To:= =20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: AW: Activity 3 Mar= =20 2010

Mike,= LF,
 
Wow! 5641km is really= impressing!=20 Congrats!!
 
Is there such an activi= ty planned for=20 the "west-stations" as well? We could do the same!
 
I've never been slower= than DFCW-10 on=20 LF. Would be interesting :-)
 
73, Stefan/DK7FC=

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org im=20 Auftrag von Mike Dennison
Gesendet: So 04.04.2010=20 12:09
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: LF:=20 Activity 3 Mar 2010

An excellent day's activity on 137kHz yesterday= with 5=20 countries
received, the furthest easterly station received here= and a QSO=20 with
a new country.

In the morining, OE5ODL and DJ6GT we= re=20 received.

During the UA tests, five stations were logged (s= ee the=20 attached
screen grab - Argo set to QRSS30 and centred on=20 137.778kHz).
The picture shows (from the top) UA0AET (5641km fr= om me);=20 RA3YO;
RN3AGC; UA4WPF; and EW6GB who was first received as earl= y as=20 1700UTC.

After the formal test I exchanged 'O' reports with= EW6GB at=20 1902km,
using QRSS10.

Well done to all concerned.
Mike,=20 G3XDV
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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