DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
  s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com;
  h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE;
  b=Ol7QIXbtxj9pL/c4HofA6JEIm8YYtDscG4L0FK4/rbKRn6EDE3E5TF5SIhSkQ13JAlsnsG/GFf9tKlJ72EzBa0My15B3tjTSZbNT2czZsJ8SuqgstuvoUqYvD6Kr80uAQfnnQvjvcsQh9oSFCzaVNpfr9L5bVub9sFSlCJ++XEQ=  ;
Message-ID: <FEFB0B050A8A40EFA7FC6F29428B274D@JimPC>
From: "James Moritz" <james.moritz@btopenworld.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
References: <BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102CB0B68CCDB0@ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be> <CAA8k23RcoXwP2JQBGOGpCe1kcgmv8=taMMqWcMEEVukvj9EW=g@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAA8k23RcoXwP2JQBGOGpCe1kcgmv8=taMMqWcMEEVukvj9EW=g@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 18:32:49 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
DomainKey-Status: good (testing) 
Subject: Re: LF: QRSS3 "challenge" results
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0  
X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d007.1 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : pass  
x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41184f32c01c0f9a
X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25
X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none


Dear Andy, Rik, LF Group,

G4JNT wrote:
...>When you generasted the Opera and WSPR audio files, did you take into
account that Opera should be compared using the mean power?  With its
50% duty cycle, this means an Opera Tx has to have twice the power
rating of one running WSPR for equal S/N ratios...>

... But on the other hand, you could argue that since the TX power is in 
practice normally limited by the PEP available from the PA. So by having 
100% duty cycle, WSPR effectively doubles the available average output power 
from a given transmitter, compared to Opera. I suppose it depends whether 
you are more worried about corona on the antenna, or your electricity bill 
;-)

I think it is interesting that there is only a small difference between 
"average" and "top 10" operators - down to about 70% correct copy, there 
appears be less than 1dB  between "good" and "average". Surely any lower 
levels of accuracy would be pretty useless for communicating information, 
even in an amateur context. This suggests the "human factor" in QRSS 
reception is perhaps quite a small factor.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU








If you used peak power (ie. the same transmitter amplitude), the curve
plotted for Opera will have to move 3dB to the right, making it more
comparable with WSPR - and then more as one would expect.

Given the similarity of the error correction overhead for Opera and
WSPR,  and nearly matching symbol rate for OP2 ,and that OOK and FSK
have comparable error rates for the same mean power, suggests the two
modes should give roughly similar performance.

Only 27 responses, that doesn't seem very many compared with the
numbers that monitor this reflector.

Andy  G4JNT


On 8 February 2012 16:00, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> the results of the "QRSS3 challenge" can be found at
> http://on7yd.strobbe.eu/QRSS/
> Hit refresh if you still see the old challenge.
>
> Thanks to all who participated !
>
> 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T
>
> ________________________________
> Van: Rik Strobbe
> Verzonden: donderdag 2 februari 2012 18:17
> Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Onderwerp: QRSS3 "challenge"
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> as mentioned some days ago I generated a whole series of Opera, WSPR
> and QRSS3 audio with a known SNR.
>
> For Opera and WSPR it was easy to determine the lowest SNR for a proper
> decode. But for QRSS3 it is much more difficult as it depends on the
> operators "sharp eye". It must be somewhere in the range of -24 to -28dB 
> SNR
> (@ 2.5kHz BW).
>
> Today I did put all the QRSS3 screenshots in this range in a
> website, where you can fill in what you see (decode) for each screenshot.
>
> I would like to invite all of you to give it a try and send me the results
> (the more entries the better the statistics).
>
> After some time (Feb 10th) will put all results into some nice tables
> and graphs and make them available.
>
> Of course no personal (individual) results will be published. But based on
> the results every participant (who keeps his results) can see where he 
> ends.
>
>
>
> The "QRSS3 Challenge" can be found at http://on7yd.strobbe.eu/QRSS/
>
>
>
> 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T



-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4795 - Release Date: 02/07/12