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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id o9si7731490wjx.72.2013.12.17.16.37.29 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:37:29 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass header.i=@mx.aol.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Vt4hF-0002xp-QD for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 00:09:05 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Vt4hF-0002xg-0T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 00:09:05 +0000 Received: from omr-d09.mx.aol.com ([205.188.108.133]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Vt4hC-0004fF-8a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 00:09:03 +0000 Received: from mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.133]) by omr-d09.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 8CB19701B5936 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 19:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from White (95-91-238-155-dynip.superkabel.de [95.91.238.155]) by mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id BD5B5E0000AC for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 19:08:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Markus Vester" To: References: ,<7801ED65CA834BA3A0CAEC7DA80106DD@White> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 01:08:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1387325340; bh=JF/RfHa1RK+jYSeiIne7ttt2ai1K5Th/+NCyxuaji9I=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=IDQRyPaO/gXjDqSYAmEnj+2TelKMPOXEpcTpSGTMPTEh3u/EVqR7AyOb4cecFs9nb KoB/gvFAr6ZNFkYh0QGcSjDurU1B/bSHder/9TZ2P9vpmhljh/sWJ1F/FXHh1CuA9W +EIEZ77UEQWd/6di3S7IDRYW4zk7+u8YQ2nkrRgI= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338552b0e79915f5 X-AOL-IP: 95.91.238.155 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Ah there's one detail I forgot to mention, which may better answers your question: The software procedure which estimates the carrier bandwidth first applies some variable smoothing to the power spectrum. The smallest used smoothing window is 5 FFT bins, which then translates into different mHz bandwidths (1.2 mHz at Op-64, 2.5 mHz at Op-32, 5 mHz at Op-16). Even when the carrier has been ideally narrow in reality, the display can hardly be less than that. [...] Content analysis details: (0.5 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [205.188.108.133 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.5 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 1.0 FREEMAIL_REPLY From and body contain different freemails X-Scan-Signature: 05df7db787776cda2726d56f546a4588 Subject: Re: LF: 136 Dial freq for OP-OPDS 32 for tonight..., Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01CEFB8D.B970C8E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1866 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CEFB8D.B970C8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah there's one detail I forgot to mention, which may better answers your = question: The software procedure which estimates the carrier bandwidth = first applies some variable smoothing to the power spectrum. The = smallest used smoothing window is 5 FFT bins, which then translates into = different mHz bandwidths (1.2 mHz at Op-64, 2.5 mHz at Op-32, 5 mHz at = Op-16). Even when the carrier has been ideally narrow in reality, the = display can hardly be less than that. 73, Markus From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:50 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: 136 Dial freq for OP-OPDS 32 for tonight..., Bob, the bandwidth displayed by opds is supposed to tell you the width of the = central carrier, it's ideally zero and not related to the modulation = speed. A stable and coherent signal like yours usually shows 1 or 2 mHz, = but the figure surely won't be good to the last digit. The carrier is = only present when the transmitter is being keyed with phase continuity = from dash to dash, and it can then be used by opds as a phase-reference = for synchroneous AM demodulation. On the other hand, the conveyed keying information resides in the AM = sidebands around the carrier, with a width proportional to the inverse = dot length. In Hartmut's Op-16 (4 second dots) capture, we find about = 0.2 Hz wide main lobes on each side of the carrier. Due to the = "unspreading" effect of the correlation, opds can still retrieve the = most likely callsign even when the power density of the sidebands is = well below the noise. Best 73,=20 Markus (DF6NM) From: Bob Raide=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:13 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: 136 Dial freq for OP-OPDS 32 for tonight..., Markus; Was wondering why my bandwidth was over twice as high as usual last = night on 73 band OP16? Must have something to do with faster OPERA mode? = And looking at my signal on Hartmut's grabber was what appeared to be = digital data on each side of the carrier. Wonder what would cause those = sidebands as I understand OPERA is nothing but keyed CW with no = modulation-unless it was hum on my carrier? Bob =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:59:41 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: 136 Dial freq for OP-OPDS 32 for tonight..., Bob, Alex, welcome again!=20 2013-12-17 23:03:34 WE2XEB 6448km 137540.999Hz 2mHz -47.7dBOp 76% = 15.5dB 2013-12-17 23:03:07 R7NT 2060km 137590.028Hz 4mHz -42.4dBOp 77% = 17.0dB 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Bob Raide=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:53 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; Bob Raide=20 Subject: LF: 136 Dial freq for OP-OPDS 32 for tonight..., WE2XEB NY will be on at 2200 or so with OP/OPDS 32 tonight at 136 dial = freq 137.541 TX freq as of now-all decodes appreciated-Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CEFB8D.B970C8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ah there's one detail I forgot to mention, which = may=20 better answers your question: The software procedure which = estimates=20 the carrier bandwidth first applies some variable = smoothing to=20 the power spectrum. The smallest used smoothing = window is 5 FFT=20 bins, which then translates into different mHz bandwidths (1.2 mHz = at=20 Op-64,  2.5 mHz at Op-32, 5 mHz at Op-16). Even when the = carrier has=20 been ideally narrow in reality, the display can hardly be less than = that.
 
73, Markus
 
 
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: LF: 136 Dial freq for OP-OPDS 32 for=20 tonight...,

Bob,
 
the bandwidth displayed by opds is = supposed to tell=20 you the width of the central carrier, it's ideally zero and not = related to=20 the modulation speed. A stable and coherent signal like yours usually=20 shows 1 or 2 mHz, but the figure surely won't = be good=20 to the last digit. The carrier is only present when=20 the transmitter is being keyed with phase continuity from dash to = dash, and=20 it can then be used by opds as a phase-reference for synchroneous AM=20 demodulation.
 
On the other hand, = the conveyed keying=20 information resides in the AM sidebands around the carrier, with a=20 width proportional to the inverse dot length. In = Hartmut's Op-16=20 (4 second dots) capture, we find about 0.2 Hz wide main lobes on each = side of=20 the carrier. Due to the "unspreading" effect of the correlation, opds = can still=20 retrieve the most likely callsign even when the power density of the=20 sidebands is well below the noise.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 

From: Bob Raide
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:13 AM
Subject: RE: LF: 136 Dial freq for OP-OPDS 32 for=20 tonight...,

Markus;
Was wondering why my bandwidth was over twice = as high as=20 usual last night on 73 band OP16? Must have something to do = with faster=20 OPERA mode?  And looking at my signal on Hartmut's grabber was = what=20 appeared to be digital data on each side of the carrier.  Wonder = what would=20 cause those sidebands as I understand OPERA is nothing but keyed CW with = no=20 modulation-unless it was hum on my carrier?  Bob
 
From: markusvester@aol.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: = Tue, 17=20 Dec 2013 23:59:41 +0100
Subject: Re: LF: 136 Dial freq for OP-OPDS 32 = for=20 tonight...,

Bob, Alex,
 
welcome again!
 
2013-12-17 23:03:34 WE2XEB  6448km = 137540.999Hz   2mHz -47.7dBOp  76% 15.5dB
2013-12-17 = 23:03:07=20 R7NT    2060km 137590.028Hz   4mHz = -42.4dBOp  77%=20 17.0dB
 
73, Markus (DF6NM)

From: Bob Raide
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:53 PM
Subject: LF: 136 Dial freq for OP-OPDS 32 for=20 tonight...,

WE2XEB NY will be on at 2200 or so with OP/OPDS 32 = tonight at 136=20 dial freq 137.541 TX freq as of now-all decodes appreciated-Bob=20
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