Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1971C38000093; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TBw6J-0001Mu-Bf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:12:07 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TBw6I-0001Ml-FM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:12:06 +0100 Received: from nm20-vm0.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([77.238.189.221]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TBw6F-00059v-1x for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:12:05 +0100 Received: from [77.238.189.48] by nm20.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2012 23:12:01 -0000 Received: from [212.82.108.225] by tm1.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2012 23:12:01 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1002.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2012 23:12:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 952372.61740.bm@omp1002.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 42902 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2012 23:12:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:Importance:X-MimeOLE:Thread-Index; b=H5mIWP2hdJY7p2ef/M0XNifFcgB2ciL2vz/PH69xLTWwYVc3quSh61rpyjrBlAcnS6m66cxLdZjI8weTcJjL6D9sj2LlRhGbiDENrbGQN676gZLyE4N9IrLV9FJhYtRLcM+6afYZMWKn4ejqXc9nfT6Ghl5b0uTQ/nURYJ/IceU= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1347491521; bh=0WXKBPgWGMU7dr4V/xzl5YyKvg/RgefTlg3pzesyXGI=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:Importance:X-MimeOLE:Thread-Index; b=jfqcGTFiPzE8c/UdCMdJ5a93gcxq6jb4p9Pnfn8tetjoHGKAoDnWeo1nXLRbxsOvS1eJk97pc/YRygUO1F96KhwJrplJeO08ZpZ1MNG7gomgMgoWC5Pq8uAfS5yVlgd+wDTbwZae8l4W2pUFGafTkkhZkmlrICifs/ryYeFMHkg= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: NE7TZMoVM1lBfkwc9A96SrEtnFLW7NPWInNEVWHZW3JcRhi 1ugP2AAkmNqodmYoiELKUb0.IWIXgsTanGKUstoLpE2oY7jlqPeLCdXdxf2R bpsREx74WYERXO605tZkz1PZsd.uSpzsHHnBx3EpQQ3jrlrisKXo6AA62mwD 1Sz7cOv45srEjDU.a_SQVFrYeyQoULuCkXN26zuNylfPWiqXm.5RXFjttbQJ 8oty6E5Q2W_3LkYv4V3EOcYMKU76ENRNUcT2issciY4bfVUjFsuV22tRnrGB to57bwkPGtkVE8lJJX7nTU31iotBwZZjUl4DUxIZX56A8tsaVVB7W2pU7dln nEHLG30uNVhkkLgMyFFwXlrdD1UoTYU7rrTbjoW.uQ4NjxhfpQsOt.D5O5gW 9m_Bp1RiJErlUDcOWJMUcysTVki5_t9Ps_NFq9Z3_FstTHboxgRl51rtzRO4 RJtw8xftrl45yWYa9j0MXU1HmU3jZG9RkRP7zB4wGVvR1j1GQgTtdOXQYXCP NovGLZgx5AiSdzw-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: jIHg8s6swBCCPeDY68q8wqV0WfySXXI4RDlApk1jFwSrbKAdvOK6 Received: from inspiron (hudsonville@86.145.184.130 with login) by smtp819.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2012 23:12:00 +0000 GMT From: "Lee Hudson" To: Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:12:01 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6863 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac2ROvd+EUvZuh5TQyepiEkrRHk5DQAAJ60g X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Graham, Only modification required is to the rig! To allow TX on 3.472-478 or whatever it's going to be here. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [77.238.189.221 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines X-Scan-Signature: 0e81e532493fedc0d63658a0626b18ea Subject: RE: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01CD9144.65C9F3B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404c505116fe3337 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01CD9144.65C9F3B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Graham, =20 Only modification required is to the rig!=20 To allow TX on 3.472-478 or whatever it's going to be here. =20 Lee. =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham Sent: 13 September 2012 00:03 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK =20 Yes Lee, I remember the project , looks very well made , bit of a tom-tit over the 500 to 477 migration , will the filters re-tune = ? =20 I have seen 7 MHz AM stations in the usa using eer as high level modulation , with e/d amps , I think most high power = broadcast sw use this system as well now ? ...mobile phones use it for = envelope shaping ...... there was a page of links on the uk500khz group =20 =20 IMD / s/n levels -35 dB maximum ? which is not bad ....ssb .. may = be IMD rises as the power o/p decreases ? =20 G. =20 From: Lee Hudson =20 Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:40 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK =20 Hi Graham, All, =20 I made an EER PA and Transverter to 3.5MHz for use on 500kHz based on = Jim's first design. And I'm sure there are a few others about. =20 First prototype of Class D PA https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15400416/IMGP0336.JPG =20 3.5MHz to 500kHz Transverter with Phase and Envelope outputs to PA https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15400416/IMGP0371.JPG =20 Switchable 50 or 200W EER PA with automatic protection https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15400416/IMGP0415.JPG =20 LPF and TX/RX Relay https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15400416/IMGP0414.JPG =20 Final Trio https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15400416/IMGP0385.JPG =20 Works a treat on all the usual modes and is even quite respectable on = SSB. 90% efficient on full output.=20 =20 Stefan's attempt at a switched mode envelope supply sounds interesting, = and a nice way to get mid power efficiency up. =20 73, Lee M0LMH. =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham Sent: 12 September 2012 17:45 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK =20 Jim M0BMU =20 =20 Published a design and made a working system ........ he also eliminated the need for a complicated drive by using = complimentary out put devices ... I don't know who else made such a thing .... ?=20 =20 G.. =20 =20 PS :: I vote for Jims design ! =20 =20 From: Clemens Paul=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:31 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk=20 Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK =20 >You can use a class E/D amp in linear , with envelope = restoration , that maintains the efficiency , s/n >imd is about 35 dB .=20 =20 To my knowledge the first description in amateur literature of an EER (envelope elimination and restauration) PA (400W) was by DJ7AW in = CQ-DL 4/2001. It's still in service. I have the article as pdf (in German) and can send it to anyone = interested in building such a PA which is not an easy task.Therefore,as far as I know, only two such = PAs have been built. One by DJ7AW and one in South America (Joe?).=20 =20 =20 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham =20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:17 PM Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK =20 Mal, =20 Things have moved on a bit=20 =20 You can use a class E/D amp in linear , with envelope = restoration , that maintains the efficiency , s/n imd is about 35 dB .=20 =20 The Op structure allows for up to 50% loss of signal randomly = along the time line , ie first 50% , last 50% or randomly distributed=20 =20 Problem with short burst is the 'average energy' level , like a = radar , huge KW peak powers but only watts average power .....and yes , = wide bandwidth . =20 Detecting a carrier is one thing .. to recover data is a much more difficult thing and requires a higher level of energy=20 =20 G.. =20 =20 Virendatenbank: 2437/5264 - Ausgabedatum: 12.09.2012=20 ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01CD9144.65C9F3B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Graham,

 

Only modification required is to = the rig!

To allow TX on 3.472-478 or = whatever it’s going to be here.

 

Lee.

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham
Sent: 13 September 2012 = 00:03
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST = TRACK

 

Yes Lee,   I remember  the  project  , looks  very = well  made , bit of a  tom-tit  over the  500 to = 477   migration  , will  the  filters  re-tune = ?

 

 I  = have  seen   7 MHz  AM   stations  in the  = usa using  eer  as  high  level  modulation , = with  e/d amps  ,  I think  most  high power  broadcast     sw  use this  system as  = well  now ? ...mobile phones  use it  for envelope  shaping = ...... there  was a  page of links  on the  uk500khz  group 

 

IMD / s/n levels   -35 dB   maximum ? which is  not  = bad ....ssb .. may  be  IMD rises  as the  power = o/p  decreases  ?

 

G.

 

From: Lee Hudson

Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:40 = PM

Subject: RE: LF: Fw: LOST = TRACK

 

Hi Graham, All,

 

I made an EER PA and Transverter to 3.5MHz for use on 500kHz based on = Jim’s first design.

And I’m sure there are a few others about.

 

First prototype of Class D PA

https://dl.dropbo= x.com/u/15400416/IMGP0336.JPG

 

3.5MHz to 500kHz Transverter with Phase and Envelope outputs to = PA

https://dl.dropbo= x.com/u/15400416/IMGP0371.JPG

 

Switchable 50 or 200W EER PA with automatic protection

https://dl.dropbo= x.com/u/15400416/IMGP0415.JPG

 

LPF and TX/RX Relay

https://dl.dropbo= x.com/u/15400416/IMGP0414.JPG

 

Final Trio

https://dl.dropbo= x.com/u/15400416/IMGP0385.JPG

 

Works a treat on all the usual modes and is even quite respectable on = SSB.

90% efficient on full output.

 

Stefan’s attempt at a switched mode envelope supply sounds interesting, and a = nice way to get mid power efficiency up.

 

73, Lee M0LMH.

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham
Sent: 12 September 2012 = 17:45
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST = TRACK

 

Jim = M0BMU  

 

Published  a  design  and  made a working  system  ........  he  also  eliminated the  need  for  a complicated   drive  by using  = complimentary   out put  devices  ... I don't know  who else  made = such a thing .... ?

 

G..  =

 

PS ::  I = vote  for  Jims  design   ! 

 

From: Clemens Paul

Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:31 = PM

Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST = TRACK

 

>You  can  use = a  class  E/D    amp  in linear , with  envelope  restoration  , that  maintains  the  efficiency  , s/n   >imd   is  = about   35 dB .

 

To my knowledge the first description in amateur literature of an

EER (envelope elimination = and restauration) PA (400W) was by DJ7AW in CQ-DL 4/2001.

It's still in = service.

I have the article as pdf  (in German) and can send it to anyone interested in = building such

a PA which is not an easy = task.Therefore,as far as I know, only two such PAs have been = built.

One by DJ7AW and = one in South America (Joe?). 

 

 

73
Clemens
DL4RAJ

----- Original Message = -----

From: Graham

Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:17 PM

Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK

 

Mal,

 

Things  = have  moved on a bit

 

You  = can  use a  class  E/D    amp  in linear , = with  envelope  restoration  , that  maintains  the  efficiency  , s/n   imd   is  about   35 dB .

 

The  Op = structure allows for  up to  50% loss  of  signal   randomly  along the  time  line , ie  first 50% , last  50% or  randomly  distributed

 

Problem = with  short burst is the  'average energy' level  , like a  = radar  , huge KW peak  powers  but  only  watts  average = power .....and  yes  , wide  bandwidth .

 

Detecting  a carrier  is one thing  .. to  recover  data is a = much  more difficult  thing and requires  a higher  level of = energy

 

G..

 


 

 Virendatenbank: 2437/5264 - Ausgabedatum: 12.09.2012

------=_NextPart_000_003E_01CD9144.65C9F3B0--