Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.222]) by air-ma10.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMA104-b5474d5addaa105; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 15:10:18 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4436438000239; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 15:10:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PpRD8-0001wj-Ew for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:09:22 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PpRD6-0001wa-OT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:09:20 +0000 Received: from smtp7.freeserve.com ([80.12.242.2] helo=smtp6.freeserve.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PpRD4-0000cy-Hv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:09:20 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3j01.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E0C9A3000230 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:09:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3j01.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D1CE8300025A for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:09:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.6.93]) by mwinf3j01.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 7D2B53000230 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:09:12 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20110215200912512.7D2B53000230@mwinf3j01.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <6AD920D46A4546ECB1E0FF76E739307C@AGB><574378.8641.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:09:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 110214-1, 14/02/2011), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJECT_ENCODED_TWICE=1.543 Subject: =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_LF:_Re:_LF:_Re:_LF:_RE:_Alignment_of_=28Narrow_Ban?= =?Windows-1252?Q?d=29_DATA_and_WSPR_frequency=92s_on_the_500_KHz_band.?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F1_01CBCD4C.361BA0E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40de4d5adda81791 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01CBCD4C.361BA0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary=20 Thats about it along with any objections to 500 usb for ros ,= I don't see much in the lower band these days , that's assumin= g the 'wide band tests' do not return ... G.. From: Gary - G4WGT=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:13 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: LF: Re: LF: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and= WSPR frequency=92s on the 500 KHz band. Pete, LF,=20 Don't forget that the modes discussed here are spot frequency modes &= Graham's suggestions are to make these modes more continent, country= & mode compatible. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 15 February 2011 10:10, M0FMT wrote: Band plans are a bad idea all it does is great unofficial RSGB Polic= emen that make life a pain like they have done on VHF here in the UK..= ....... Any way the band is only on loan. =20 73 es GL petefmt=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Cc: Joe Taylor Sent: Tue, 15 February, 2011 7:23:06 Subject: LF: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency= =92s on the 500 KHz band. Hello Graham, I would suggest to have all digital modes as close as possible to th= e band edges, leaving the band centre for CW. For WSPR there are currently 2 segments: one for EU stations to tran= smit on (503.9kHz +/- 100Hz) and one NA stations to transmit on (501.1= kHz +/- 100Hz) to avoid local QRM (or better said RX overload).=20 So 503.7kHz +/- 100Hz and/or 501.3kHz +/- 100Hz for other digimodes= ? It would be possible to have a single data segment for EU and NA it= we go from frequency division to time division: if all EU stations wo= uld transmit in the xx:00-xx:02, xx:04-xx:06, xx:08-xx:10 ... time slo= ts and all NA stations in the xx:02-xx:04, xx:06-xx-08 ... time slots= they can use the same frequency without local QRM. But this would require a minor chang in the WSPR software (and maybe= also other software). 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] namens Graham [g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk] Verzonden: dinsdag 15 februari 2011 2:20 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org CC: Joe Taylor Onderwerp: LF: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92= s on the 500 KHz band. Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92s on the = 500 KHz band. The original wspr frequency 502.4 was defined as the working= frequency to utilise the =91clean=92 area just under the 504 = harmonic, whilst avoiding the various beacons running across the= 501/504 band at the time. However, time has moved on and there are= now numerous =91dial setting=92s=92 in use both sides of the Atlantic= . Due to an apparent increase in the side band noise from the = 504 signal , possibly by enhanced propagation , the ROS MF (100= hz b/w) working frequency is to be re defined as 500 USB dial se= t giving a centre carrier frequency of 501.500 =20 Due to Ae bandwidth and perhaps alignment with other band= =92s, I would suggest the original WSPR 502.4K is replaced with= the lower frequency of 495.9K , thus restoring the System=92s = coverage and facilitating changes of mode etc within a narrow ban= dwidth.=20 I don=92t see this detracting from the monitoring of spot freq= uency beacons over 505Khz , but more appropriate to transmitting= stations , which by the nature of the antenna arrays are not ab= le comfortably to qsy from top to bottom of the band without= re-tuning, not always a simple option. Comments or suggestions please ?. Graham G0NBD ------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01CBCD4C.361BA0E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gary
 
Thats  about it  along = ; with=20 any  objections to  500 usb  for  ros , I don't&nb= sp; see=20 much  in the  lower  band these  days  , that= 's =20 assuming  the    'wide band tests'  do  not&n= bsp;=20 return ...
 
G..

Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:13 AM
Subject: LF: Re: LF: Re: LF: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band= ) DATA and=20 WSPR frequency=92s on the 500 KHz band.

Pete, LF,=20

Don't forget that the modes discussed here are spot frequency mod= es &=20 Graham's suggestions are to make these modes more continent, country= & mode=20 compatible.

73,

Gary - G4WGT.


On 15 February 2011 10:10, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk&g= t; wrote:
Band plans are a bad idea all it does is great unofficial RSGB= Policemen=20 that make life a pain like they have done on VHF here in the UK.....= .... Any=20 way the band is only on loan.
 
73 es GL petefmt=20


From: Rik Strobbe &l= t;Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <<= A href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" target=3D_blank= >rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Cc: Joe Taylor=20 <joe@Princeton.EDU>
Subject:= LF: RE:=20 Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92s on the 500 KH= z=20 band.

Hello Graham,
 
I would suggest to have all digita= l modes as=20 close as possible to the band edges, leaving the band centre for=20 CW.
For WSPR there are currently&= nbsp;2=20 segments: one for EU stations to transmit on (503.9kHz +/- 100Hz) an= d one NA=20 stations to transmit on (501.1kHz +/- 100Hz) to avoid local QRM (or= better=20 said RX overload).
So 503.7kHz +/- 100Hz and/or 501.3= kHz +/- 100Hz=20 for other digimodes ?
It would be possible to have a sin= gle data=20 segment for EU and NA it we go from frequency division to time divis= ion: if=20 all EU stations would transmit in the xx:00-xx:02, xx:04-xx:06, xx:0= 8-xx:10=20 ... time slots and all NA stations in the xx:02-xx:04, xx:06-xx-08= ... time=20 slots they can use the same frequency without local QRM.
But this would require a minor cha= ng in the WSPR=20 software (and maybe also other software).
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T<= /DIV>
 
Van: own= er-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] namens Graham [g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk]
Verzonde= n: dinsdag 15=20 februari 2011 2:20
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
CC: Joe=20 Taylor
Onderwerp: LF: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and= WSPR=20 frequency=92s on the 500 KHz band.

Alignment of  (Narrow Band) DATA  and=20  WSPR  frequency=92s on the = ; 500=20 KHz  band.

 

The  original wspr frequency=20   502.4  was =20 defined  as the =20 working  frequency  to =20 utilise the  =91clean=92 area = just=20 under the  504  harmonic, whilst= avoiding=20 the  various  beacons = ;=20 running  across  the =20 501/504  band at the  tim= e.=20 However, time has moved on and there are now numerous =91dial settin= g=92s=92 in use=20 both sides of the Atlantic.

 

Due=20 to  an apparent  increase&= nbsp;=20 in the  side band =20 noise  from the  504 sign= al ,=20 possibly by  enhanced  propagati= on ,=20 the  ROS  MF  (100 hz b/w)= =20 working  frequency is  to be re= defined=20 as  500  USB dial  set =20 giving a  centre =20 carrier  frequency of 501.500=20  

 

Due  to  Ae =20 bandwidth and  perhaps=20  alignment  with =20  other   band=92s,=20  I   would  suggest=20 the original WSPR  502.4K is =20 replaced  with the  lower= frequency=20  of  495.9K , thus = =20 restoring the  System=92s  coverage=20 and  facilitating  changes=  =20 of mode etc within a  narrow bandwidth.

 

I don=92t=20  see  this =20 detracting  from the monitoring = of=20 spot  frequency  beacons&n= bsp;=20 over 505Khz , but more  appropriate&n= bsp; =20 to  transmitting  station= s ,=20 which  by the  nature of the =20 antenna arrays are  not =20 able  comfortably  to =20 qsy  from  top = ;=20 to  bottom of the  band= =20 without  re-tuning, not  always a  simple =20 option.

 

Comments  or  suggestions=20 please ?.

 

Graham

G0NBD

 







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