Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D30D3380000B6; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:32:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TaAad-0003qq-Nf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:31:35 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TaAad-0003qh-0N for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:31:35 +0000 Received: from smtpout1.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.29] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TaAaa-00074F-IO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:31:33 +0000 Received: from AGB ([2.26.8.63]) by mwinf5d03 with ME id R7XW1k00C1Mbolu037XWHD; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:31:31 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <8BBDFD59AEC74D7AA5A2778F74FCC576@White> <50A69E13.4060209@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <5B513DC14F8C46509C05E1AB0F769979@SV8CSHP> <6A62E7F1C7984EF193594F15235C8DF9@SV8CSHP> <50A6A7A6.7070404@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <005d01cdc440$19ae0b40$4d0a21c0$@simnet.is> <50A6B06C.2030508@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <50A6B51A.6010502@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <50A9174A.7070802@freenet.de> In-Reply-To: <50A9174A.7070802@freenet.de> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:31:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Well yes that's true There are other reason's as well , some data modes are orientated , in that if the Tx sends in usb , then the Rx must also be in the same orientation usb , or vice versa , Modes have decoder bandwidths that limit the amount of tolerance Tx/RTx may accommodate , if multi Tx sessions are to be decoded , then with simply the 'qrg' then the Rx 'audience' are not sure if the Tx will qsy out side there pass band , eg , wspr (non hacked) is what 200 or 300 Hz wide , a well known ook system uses two audio pass bands to differentia speeds and another apparently little used data system can accommodate +/- 40 Hz in its MF version and +/- 125 Hz in the HF/VHF version , [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.29 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 55dc4c23c04335f55fa0ec2b6334816e Subject: Re: LF: RXing JT9-2 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0068_01CDC5C3.4F66BC80" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405750a937c5191c X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01CDC5C3.4F66BC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well yes that's true=20 There are other reason's as well , some data modes are orientated , = in that if the Tx sends in usb , then the Rx must also be in = the same orientation usb , or vice versa , Modes have decoder bandwidths that limit the amount of tolerance = Tx/RTx may accommodate , if multi Tx sessions are to be decoded , = then with simply the 'qrg' then the Rx 'audience' are not sure = if the Tx will qsy out side there pass band , eg , wspr (non = hacked) is what 200 or 300 Hz wide , a well known ook system = uses two audio pass bands to differentia speeds and another = apparently little used data system can accommodate +/- 40 Hz in = its MF version and +/- 125 Hz in the HF/VHF version ,=20 Setting at the edge could result in lost decodes, as most are now = invisible , correct tx/rx alignment is vital and yes as Mal = would say , that's bottom line for appliance operation , like = landing on instruments in the fog , everyone has to have the = same rule book .=20 Close by on 500 can mean upto 50 /60 miles as the ground wave = seems to travel very well , all that is yet to come , when more = users appear on 500 , south of Watford-gap (traditional test of = n/s uk origin) there was Beacon-Bedlam when the band first = filled with qrss stations effectively jamming each other on rx = ... happy days ! 73 -G.. =20 From: wolf_dl4yhf=20 Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 5:13 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: RXing JT9-2 Guess what Stefan meant is the center frequency of his transmission, = HF-wise.=20 And that's less ubiquitous than this 'dial'-thing, because the = combination of the 'dial frequency' and 'audio frequency' is irrelevant. = Only the sum of both is relevant. Example:=20 When tuning to 136.0 kHz "dial" in USB on an analog HF transceiver, plus = 1420 Hz audio, the RX covers a range of 136300 to 139700 Hz (assuming = the typical 300 to 2700 Hz pass). Assume there is a powerful transmitter = near 139 kHz .. anyone close to that transmitter (wink, wink..) will = prefer to tune his RX to, for example, 135.0 kHz "USB dial" and use 2420 = Hz audio center frequency (assuming a sufficiently configurable = software).=20 Thus the center frequency of the real transmission (137.42 kHz) is all = one needs to know.=20 All the best, Wolf . Am 18.11.2012 16:47, schrieb Graham: S,, If jt9 is a multi tone (mfsk) system , as is wspr , then which = tone are you declaring the frequency of ? better to use the dial convention ,=20 Then everyone has the same (suppressed) carrier frequency and what = ever audio offset will be unified=20 G) .. From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 9:50 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: RXing JT9-2 Hi Mauro,=20 I'm on 137.42 kHz (i always tell the TX frequency), yes JT9-2. 73, Stefan Am 16.11.2012 22:42, schrieb IK1WVQ Mauro:=20 Hi Stefan, are you trasmitting now ??? 137 dial + xxxx ???? JT9-2 ???? I am trying to receive you . 73 Mauro IK1WVQ At 22.30 16/11/12, you wrote: Thanks Halld=F3r! Spiros, did you decode the 21:08 and 21:12 transmissions? Is there = someone else watching? 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 16.11.2012 22:19, schrieb Halld=F3r:=20 Stefan, Not very consistent series from me. I am saving all if someone = is interested. =20 2100 4 -25 0.7 1423.0 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK =20 2102 0 -31 0.3 1429.1 0.00 2104 3 -25 0.9 1423.0 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK =20 2106 0 -32 -2.1 1421.1 0.00 2108 5 -23 1.1 1423.0 0.00 2110 0 -32 -1.3 1429.9 0.00 2112 4 -24 0.0 1423.0 0.00 =20 73 Halld=F3r TF3HZ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ = mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Stefan Sch=E4fer Sent: 16. n=F3vember 2012 20:53 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RXing JT9-2 =20 Thanks Spiros,=20 That looks consistent, you're loosing no single transmission. The reports look reasonable as well. Tnx, 73, Stefan Am 16.11.2012 21:47, schrieb SV8CS- Spiros Chimarios:=20 JT9-2 on 136 Khz=20 =20 =B7 2020 10 -14 0.5 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK = =B7 2022 2 -36 -2.4 1370.0 0.00 =B7 2024 10 -21 0.4 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK = =B7 2026 0 -39 2.4 1402.2 0.00 =B7 2028 10 -17 0.5 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK = =B7 2030 0 -33 -0.6 1408.9 0.00 =B7 2032 10 -12 0.5 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK = =B7 2034 1 -37 0.8 1426.8 0.00 =B7 2036 10 -10 0.3 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK = =B7 2038 0 -35 -1.0 1436.5 0.00 =B7 2040 10 -16 0.4 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK = =B7 2042 0 -30 0.1 1426.8 0.00 =B7 2044 10 -13 0.3 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK = =20 73, Spiros SV8CS Nessun virus nel messaggio in arrivo. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com=20 Versione: 9.0.930 / Database dei virus: 2441.1.1/5398 - Data di = rilascio: 11/16/12 10:50:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01CDC5C3.4F66BC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well  yes  that's true
 
There  are other reason's  as well , some  data = modes =20 are  orientated , in that   if the  Tx  = sends =20 in  usb   , then the  Rx  must  also  = be in=20 the  same  orientation  usb  , or  vice versa = ,
 
Modes  have   decoder   bandwidths =20 that  limit the  amount of tolerance  Tx/RTx  may=20 accommodate , if  multi Tx sessions  are to  be =20 decoded  , then  with  simply  the  'qrg'  = then=20 the  Rx  'audience'  are  not  sure  if = the =20 Tx  will   qsy  out side there  pass  band = ,   eg , wspr (non hacked) is  what  200 or  = 300 =20 Hz   wide  , a well known   ook  =20 system  uses  two  audio  pass  bands  = to =20 differentia   speeds  and  another apparently=20  little  used  data  system  can =20 accommodate  +/-  40 Hz  in its  MF version =20 and   +/-  125 Hz in the  HF/VHF  version , =
 
Setting  at the  edge could  result in lost  = decodes,=20 as most  are  now invisible  ,=20 correct  tx/rx  alignment  is  vital   = and =20 yes  as  Mal  would  say ,  that's  bottom = line  for  appliance  operation ,  like =20 landing on instruments   in the  fog  , = everyone =20 has to  have  the  same  rule book .
 
Close  by  on 500  can mean  upto   = 50=20 /60  miles  as  the  ground  wave  = seems =20 to  travel  very  well , all  that  is yet = to =20 come , when  more  users  appear on 500  ,  = south =20 of  Watford-gap   (traditional  test = of  n/s =20 uk origin)   there  was  Beacon-Bedlam  = when =20 the  band  first  filled  with  qrss =20 stations  effectively jamming   each  other  on = rx  ... happy days !
 
73 -G..
 
 
 
  =
 

From: wolf_dl4yhf
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 5:13 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: RXing JT9-2

Guess what Stefan meant is the center = frequency of=20 his transmission, HF-wise.
And that's less ubiquitous than this=20 'dial'-thing, because the combination of the 'dial frequency' and 'audio = frequency' is irrelevant. Only the sum of both is relevant.
Example: =
When=20 tuning to 136.0 kHz "dial" in USB on an analog HF transceiver, plus 1420 = Hz=20 audio, the RX covers a range of 136300 to 139700 Hz (assuming the = typical 300 to=20 2700 Hz pass). Assume there is a powerful transmitter near 139 kHz .. = anyone=20 close to that transmitter (wink, wink..) will prefer to tune his RX to, = for=20 example, 135.0 kHz "USB dial" and use 2420 Hz audio center frequency = (assuming a=20 sufficiently configurable software).
Thus the center frequency of = the real=20 transmission (137.42 kHz) is all one needs to know.


All the=20 best,
   Wolf .

Am 18.11.2012 16:47, schrieb=20 Graham:
S,,
 
If jt9  is a  multi tone  (mfsk)  = system , as is=20 wspr  , then  which   tone  are you =20 declaring  the  frequency of  ?
better to  use the  dial  convention ,
 
Then  everyone  has the  same (suppressed) carrier = frequency and what  ever audio  offset  will  = be =20 unified
 
G) ..

From: Stefan Sch=E4fer
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 9:50 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: RXing JT9-2

Hi Mauro,

I'm on 137.42 kHz (i always tell the = TX=20 frequency), yes JT9-2.

73, Stefan

Am 16.11.2012 22:42, = schrieb=20 IK1WVQ Mauro:=20
Hi=20 Stefan,
are you trasmitting now ???

137 dial +  xxxx=20 ????
JT9-2 ????

I am trying to receive you=20 .

73

Mauro IK1WVQ





At 22.30 = 16/11/12,=20 you wrote:
Thanks = Halld=F3r!

Spiros,=20 did you decode the 21:08 and 21:12 transmissions? Is there someone = else=20 watching?

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am 16.11.2012 22:19, = schrieb=20 Halld=F3r:
Stefan,
Not = very=20 consistent series from me. I am saving all if someone is=20 interested.
 
2100   4  = -25  =20 0.7  1423.0  0.00   DK7FC=20 JN49IK         =20
2102   0  -31   0.3  = 1429.1 =20 0.00
2104   3  -25   0.9  = 1423.0 =20 0.00   DK7FC=20 JN49IK         =20
2106   0  -32  -2.1  1421.1 =20 0.00
2108   5  -23   1.1  = 1423.0 =20 0.00
2110   0  -32  -1.3  = 1429.9 =20 0.00
2112   4  -24   0.0  = 1423.0 =20 0.00
 
73
Halld=F3r
TF3HZ
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [ = mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On=20 Behalf Of Stefan Sch=E4fer
Sent: 16. n=F3vember = 2012=20 20:53
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject:<= /B>=20 Re: LF: RXing JT9-2
 
Thanks Spiros,

That = looks=20 consistent, you're loosing no single transmission.
The = reports look=20 reasonable as well.

Tnx, 73, Stefan

Am 16.11.2012 = 21:47,=20 schrieb SV8CS- Spiros Chimarios:

JT9-2 on 136 Khz=20 =

 
=B7        &nbs= p;           =20 2020 10 -14 0.5 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK=20 =
=B7           =          =20 2022 2 -36 -2.4 1370.0=20 = 0.00
=B7          &n= bsp;         =20 2024 10 -21 0.4 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK=20 =
=B7           =          =20 2026 0 -39 2.4 1402.2=20 = 0.00
=B7          &n= bsp;         =20 2028 10 -17 0.5 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK=20 =
=B7           =          =20 2030 0 -33 -0.6 1408.9=20 = 0.00
=B7          &n= bsp;         =20 2032 10 -12 0.5 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK=20 =
=B7           =          =20 2034 1 -37 0.8 1426.8=20 = 0.00
=B7          &n= bsp;         =20 2036 10 -10 0.3 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK=20 =
=B7           =          =20 2038 0 -35 -1.0 1436.5=20 = 0.00
=B7          &n= bsp;         =20 2040 10 -16 0.4 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK=20 =
=B7           =          =20 2042 0 -30 0.1 1426.8=20 = 0.00
=B7          &n= bsp;         =20 2044 10 -13 0.3 1420.3 0.00 DK7FC JN49IK
 
73,=20 Spiros
SV8CS

Nessun virus nel messaggio in=20 arrivo.
Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com =
Versione:=20 9.0.930 / Database dei virus: 2441.1.1/5398 -  Data di = rilascio:=20 11/16/12 = 10:50:00

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