Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.83]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMB011-a0764c93c1651e0; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:28:37 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-da11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F2F9380000F1; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OwgaZ-0004YU-1p for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:27:15 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OwgaO-0004YH-IA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:27:04 +0100 Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OwgaM-0004Yp-Sm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:27:05 +0100 Received: from mtaout-mb04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.68]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o8HJQhmv021225 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:26:43 -0400 Received: from Black (nrbg-4d072637.pool.mediaWays.net [77.7.38.55]) by mtaout-mb04.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 3ECB3E000146 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <0EA4969E8F9344738D579A32DE059F38@Black> In-Reply-To: <0EA4969E8F9344738D579A32DE059F38@Black> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:26:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: LF: Re: 153KHz view from EU Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01CB56AF.025F59E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40534c93c1634067 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01CB56AF.025F59E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Scott, LF, I've temporarily tuned the grabber to 153 kHz, inserted a 20 dB pad,= and slowed down the TA window to 10.5 mHz resolution, 30s scroll: http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/grabber/Grabber.htm I intend to leave it running for a couple of hours, and bring it back= to 137 before going to bed. The cyan line on 0.0 Hz is DLF Donebach at ~ 277=B0, with weak sidelin= es at 0.2 Hz multiples from the data frames. I have placed a null on= it, but the E-H cancellation is incomplete due to skywave QSB effects= .=20 The strong orange line at + 0.525 Hz is clearly Brasov (Romania) at ~1= 40=B0. This is most likely the "new unid" in your spectrogram. I can't make out Bechar Algeria yet (should be green and strong), but= if it's on frequency I couldn't separate it from DLF here. Same perha= ps for Ingoy (Norway, dark blue). No signs of "VOR" Komsomolsk at + 1.5 Hz either, but that may simply= be too far.=20 Best 73, MArkus=20 DF6NM in Nuernberg, JN59NK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:07 PM Subject: LF: 153KHz view from EU Hi Scott, sounds like a nice challenge for my colour-DF system... Donebach is GPS and Cesium controlled so the carrier should be accur= ately on frequency. At 160 km, they are overwhelmingly strong here, an= d there are close-in sidebands from low datarate DGPS signalling ("AMD= S") and dynamic carrier control. Even with about 30 dB directional nul= ling (left part of screenshot), there is nothing else to see in daytim= e. I will try to take a more detailed look tonight, when the DLF level= should be significantly reduced due to power reduction and transmit= antenna pattern switchover. =20 Best 73,=20 Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Scott Tilley=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 5:45 AM Subject: LF: 153KHz view from EU Would someone with suitable equipment in Europe mind taking a lo= ok on 153KHz and sending me a grab of the carriers there? I would like to sort out who's who. If you could null some of the= carriers to determine rough bearings from your QTH that would be grea= t! I understand the following stations are on 153KHz world wide: a.. Antena Satelor / Radio Romania - Brasov, Romania - 1200 kW b.. Chaine 1 - B=E9char, Algeria - 2000 kW c.. Deutschlandfunk - Donebach, Germany - 500 kW (250 kW night) d.. NRK Finnmark - Ingoy, Norway - 100 kW e.. Radio Rossii - Komsomolsk, Russia - 1200 kW (presently kno= wn to be at ~153001.5Hz) from http://wiki.mayson.us/wiki/List_of_longwave_broadcast_transmitters= #153_kHz I regularly see a carrier bang on 153000 and one at 153000.5ish du= ring time of propagation to EU. Thanks, Scott VE7TIL CN89dk http://www3.telus.net/sthed/argo/ ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01CB56AF.025F59E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Scott, LF,
 
I've temporarily tuned the grabber to= 153 kHz,=20 inserted a 20 dB pad, and slowed down the TA window to 10.5 mHz resolu= tion, 30s=20 scroll:
I intend to leave it running for= a couple of=20 hours, and bring it back to 137 before going to bed.
 
The cyan line on 0.0 Hz is DLF Doneba= ch at ~ 277=B0,=20 with weak sidelines at  0.2 Hz multiples from the data frames.&nb= sp;I have=20 placed a null on it, but the E-H cancellation is incomplete&= nbsp;due=20 to skywave QSB effects. 
 
The strong orange line at + 0.525 Hz&= nbsp;is=20 clearly Brasov (Romania) at ~140=B0. This is most likely the "new= unid" in=20 your spectrogram.
 
I can't make out Bechar Algeria= yet (should be=20 green and strong), but if it's on frequency I couldn't separate= it from DLF=20 here. Same perhaps for Ingoy (Norway, dark blue).
 
No signs of "VOR" Komsomolsk at + 1.5= Hz either,=20 but that may simply be too far.
 
Best 73,
 
MArkus 
DF6NM in Nuernberg, JN59NK
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 17,= 2010 8:07=20 PM
Subject: LF: 153KHz view from= EU
=
Hi Scott,
 
sounds like a nice challenge for my= colour-DF=20 system...
 
Donebach is GPS and Cesium controll= ed so the=20 carrier should be accurately on frequency. At 160 km, they are=20 overwhelmingly strong here, and there are close-in sideban= ds=20 from low datarate DGPS signalling= ("AMDS") and=20 dynamic carrier control. Even with about 30 dB directional= nulling=20 (left part of screenshot), there is nothing else to see in=20 daytime.
 
I will try to take a more detailed= look tonight,=20 when the DLF level should be significantly reduced due to= power=20 reduction and transmit antenna pattern switchover.  
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 17,= 2010 5:45=20 AM
Subject: LF: 153KHz view fr= om EU

  Would someone with suitable equipment in Europe mind= taking a=20 look on 153KHz and sending me a grab of the carriers there?
I would=20 like to sort out who's who.  If you could null some of the ca= rriers to=20 determine rough bearings from your QTH that would be great!
I=20 understand the following stations are on 153KHz world=20 wide:

   a.. Antena Satelor / Radio Romania - Bra= sov,=20 Romania - 1200 kW
   b.. Chaine 1 - B=E9char, Algeria= - 2000=20 kW
   c.. Deutschlandfunk - Donebach, Germany - 500= kW (250 kW=20 night)
   d.. NRK Finnmark - Ingoy, Norway - 100=20 kW
   e.. Radio Rossii - Komsomolsk, Russia - 1200 kW=  =20 (presently known to be at ~153001.5Hz)
from
http://wiki.mayson.us/wiki/Lis= t_of_longwave_broadcast_transmitters#153_kHz

I=20 regularly see a carrier bang on 153000 and one at 153000.5ish duri= ng time of=20 propagation to EU.

Thanks,
Scott
VE7TIL CN89dk
http://www3.telus.ne= t/sthed/argo/




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