Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.201]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMB013-a1874d7698f331c; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:00:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 26BF8380000C8; Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:00:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Px40J-0002l8-At for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:59:39 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Px40I-0002kz-P4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:59:38 +0000 Received: from nm20.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.183.194]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Px40H-0002OQ-4T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:59:38 +0000 Received: from [217.146.183.211] by nm20.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2011 20:59:31 -0000 Received: from [217.146.183.163] by tm4.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2011 20:59:31 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2011 20:59:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 57913.82706.bm@omp1004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 63216 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2011 20:59:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=OURTxG6X018uejZXKmCCO1MWy14myVbvtSyHM4gNLHfm2MH45TOkuQK0XMlJtYJ/eI417qW11APTO55yLl9Eg0yN2R+E2BIz+hOD4JdFn4bdj5Pf24+tJ22AEMdd3ViJBOFk4Wwv26LzEfuRbyibqV4m9mAhn/nosIIgoo/RwBk= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1299617970; bh=c7rZIgWhqLem54uS4iHCrVOlxnJeS22CKMu9YzqXncs=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=IVj0iyhxyoxCf8kbvkOSKp26OWcQcbONL0awaBjfa/CLoHpz1duG7fxQnv5pbCW8rTbHrUxC+MI62mkoHPfmlTR8zdMHnjDu2qv5muI8T9Xf9wqDAZGuHp0vTTkBqAl3Hc8+1lEFK/Wa3y/Ag4NVrd40B4D2xVMj2hRtuiRxqbc= Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.176.86.80 with login) by smtp815.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 08 Mar 2011 20:59:27 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: 5nZte.AVM1li1Y1MftuA7rHYBxlTDH7GOsMOleh4HNcOX12 .g9bc3JmXd4QMmCWjLyjCUcxJRB80awUuNhBvM9N0yTISK31OnOcxtxWbexm v_MgWbFB0bXcud4SkQK4tW.YWKTWXYwhO50uoNdi9iHopSulGgTzNHzF4sVu MHyUOdGG5DDDV.nyhL3EDxDBEh3DEMWSSDcraLQV0W4zebTAfmH8ZKJ10K9. 6Pjo1J0XdZlRRbcM3x.VR3VCP4DxZS7Yb9xag X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: <33d07ccc43ec486d83d0d460928f26ad@kabelmail.de> In-Reply-To: <33d07ccc43ec486d83d0d460928f26ad@kabelmail.de> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 21:00:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18263 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: VLF dj8wx on 8970.022Hz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d018.1 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60c94d7698f15223 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dear Uwe, One can make a very approximate, order-of-magnitude estimate of ERP and voltage from the info you have:- The effective height of a heavily top-loaded vertical such as your antenna will be a bit less than the average physical height of the conductors - assume about 12m. The radiation resistance Rrad = 160 * pi^2 * (Heff/lambda)^2 at 9kHz is therefore 200 micro-ohm - it will be reduced if there are trees, buildings etc. close to the antenna. The antenna current will be slightly less than the current in the radials, due to the distributed capacitance of the loading coil, etc., at max power let us say 2.7A. ERP will then be 1.8 * (2.7)^2 * 200u = 2.7mW. The exact capacitance will depend on the spacing and diameter of the antenna wires, etc., but I estimate roughly 1200pF based on your drawing. The reactance at 9k is therefore 15kohm. With 2.7A antenna current, the antenna voltage would be 40kV RMS. There are major possible sources of error when trying to measure the antenna voltage in the way you describe - even at 9kHz, the effect of stray capacitance will be very serious - a 10M resistor has the same magnitude of impedance as 1.7pF of stray capacitance, so only a short length of exposed wire will cause a large change in voltage at the scope input. Also, as you have seen, the strong E field can couple significantly to the internal wiring of the measuring equipment unless it is very well screened. Any potential divider must also be well screened, and take into account the time constants due to resistance and stray capacitance. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU