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Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:00:15 +0000 Received: from DB6PR1001MB1320.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (10.152.18.51) by VE1EUR03FT049.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.19.216) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.629.5 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:00:14 +0000 Received: from DB6PR1001MB1320.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([10.171.77.147]) by DB6PR1001MB1320.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([10.171.77.147]) with mapi id 15.01.0629.018; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:00:15 +0000 From: James Cowburn To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: LF: good night on MF WSPR @G7NKS 1933km @ 50mW erp - winter plans Thread-Index: AdIW+/4OJF6ULHytQbWOITjhf0uBrwAFJRWAAADA0oA= Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:00:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <19771A4FE3F240239C54CD72681C2123@PCPMF> In-Reply-To: <19771A4FE3F240239C54CD72681C2123@PCPMF> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 10.152.18.51) smtp.mailfrom=outlook.com; 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x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9585b286-08f9-42ac-ea3a-08d3e52abe77 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(1601124038)(1603103081)(1601125047);SRVR:VE1EUR03HT038; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(432015012)(82015046);SRVR:VE1EUR03HT038;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:VE1EUR03HT038; x-forefront-prvs: 0076F48C8A spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Sep 2016 10:00:15.0380 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VE1EUR03HT038 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2016 10:00:44.0656 (UTC) FILETIME=[AE7F4700:01D21713] X-Scan-Signature: b04edeb06ab855822b9c323519473c39 Subject: RE: LF: good night on MF WSPR @G7NKS 1933km @ 50mW erp - winter plans Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DB6PR1001MB13209FFB89B982A8A90CCE4BECCA0DB6PR1001MB1320_" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8841 --_000_DB6PR1001MB13209FFB89B982A8A90CCE4BECCA0DB6PR1001MB1320_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Andy Add these in and see what it comes up with:- 1. Vertical antenna in open and 15m away from house and near trees. 30m to= p wire runs in an East-West orientation heading West away from vertical ele= ment, i.e. vertical element is at "east" end of garden. Top wire runs wes= twards for 15m over roof (tile). Height clear of roof is about 1m and then= another 15m westwards to a 10m fibreglass telescopic pole lashed to a wood= en fence panel. There is actually a further 5m of wire hanging down the po= le so top wire is 30m with a 90' bend and then 5m hanging down, taped to we= st end support pole. I'd be curious to see what directivity that gives as my best signals usuall= y come from East, but that may well be because there are more Rxs that way,= though last night I did get to Iceland which is 320' or so azimuth from my= QTH. The loading coil is just 130 turns of 2mm tri-rated flex wound on a "brown"= 100mm diameter plumbing "soil" pipe". The antenna wire connects via banana plug/socket at the top and then the va= rious taps start from Turn 85 down to Turn 120. I think it's currently c= onnected at turn 95 or so. The core of the coax goes straight to the tap an= d the braid to the earthing system. I don't use any matching transformers or overwound coupling coils to link t= he feeder to the loading coil, it is directly connected and it seems to wor= k okay and looks okay on the analyser. Next challenge is to beat the 2000km wall!! I'll have a look at the link. With best regards Jim Dr. Jim Cowburn G7NKS IO92ub ________________________________ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org] On Behalf Of F6CNI - Andy - JN19QB Sent: 25 September 2016 10:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: good night on MF WSPR @G7NKS 1933km @ 50mW erp - winter pl= ans Hello James. Congrats your results on WSPR2 MF. I just computed, using the EZNEC PRO V6.0 software, your antenna with the 5= 2 Ohms base resistance part, an average soil in the Fraunhofer zone and 25 = Watts output TX. Here the results : 1. Base antenna Z =3D 52 - 1300 j and 900 Volts RF RMS ; 2. F/B ratio 1.4 dB ; 3. Efficiency =96 21 dB, so about 200 mW ERP ; 4. Maxi lobe -18 dBi at 20=B0 site, so about 400 mW EIRP ; 5. Ibase =3D 0.7 A , Itop =3D 0.5 A , Total Amperes x meters =3D 7.2 in= the vertical wire. 6. To get 1 W EIRP, you need about 60 Watts output TX. Note that results are exactly the same if you test the very very fb, easy t= o use and accurate =AB Antenna simulator =BB computed by rik ON7YD / OR7T := http://www.472khz.org/pages/about-this-site.php Best 73. Andy. From: James Cowburn Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 9:11 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: good night on MF WSPR @G7NKS 1933km @ 50mW erp - winter plans Prop'n seems to be improving. Iceland and Finland last night on MF, nearly= 2000km on about 50mW ERP. Roll on the cold dark nights! Simple set up @ G7NKS IC706mk2g via current meter and home brew 7 pole LPF into coax out some 15m= to a tapped loading coil into an inverted L (12m high on a fibreglass tele= scopic pole and 30m top wire across roof) Earthing via a mish-mash of stakes & bonding to oil tank feeder pipe (burie= d) and some steel mesh under patio slabs and block paved drive. Checking via the RigExpert AA1000 analyser shows an impedance of 52 ohm and= a return loss of -25dB @ 474.2khz. For the local IO92 and Newark Sunday = morning net with G3XIZ, M0JXM, G3DXZ, G4GIR occasionally and M0FMT, we use = around 473.3khz and this occassionally warrants a quick tap up or down by h= alf a turn. Also when it rains like today, there's a tweak needed sometime= s as the top wire capacitance to roof changes as it becomes more electrolyt= ic and less air spaced! PC is a Dell Studio 1749 running WSPR 2.12. The IC706mk2G will run at about 25% max power on 472 so about 25w but not a= ll of that is at 472 of course, I estimate I'm getting 50mW ERP using a ver= y helpful spreadsheet/calc provided by Stefan. On a 15% duty cycle it all remains happily cool. It does have a tendency to fight with our cheap home broadband router suppl= ied by British Telecom, resulting in the "Orange Light of Death" and subseq= uent grief from XYL and 2 teenagers as their Netflix/Music stream/Online ga= ming has just fallen over! Ferrite toroids have been spectacularly unsuc= cessful in remedying this. The best solution has been to try to run the CA= T5 cables in my office as perpendicular to the coax feed and line of roof t= op wire as possible to minimise pick up and cross talk, but this hasn't rea= lly been that effective either. A bigger issue on Rx is the noise pick up from both Dell (genuine kit and = not cheap copies either, which is annoying!) PSUs that feed the Studio and= the XPS17 which is my main office PC. On batteries, I get about S1-3 of no= ise which is very good, but as soon as the PSU's are used and are under "lo= ad" then this rockets up to S7-9! If they are powered on, but not driving = the laptops i.e. disconnected, then they have no impact. I'm wondering i= f it is the load that makes them noisier or whether the whole laptop acts a= s an augmented antenna when they are connected to it? I've tried putting them in shielded earthed metal boxes (biscuit tins!) wit= h no effect. (biscuits were nice though!). Similarly, stacked ferrite toro= ids on the mains inputs and DC power out have had zero impact. They both h= ave a very bright blue LED on the power cable whereas older units for my De= ll D610/20 series did not have this "bauble" and were much quieter, but als= o were lower rated at 60W or 90W as opposed to these beasts which are aroun= d 120W to 150W, and run alarmingly warm at times! The Rx noise doesn't seem to affect my WSPR reception but it does impact on= me hearing G3DXZ (Chas) from Newark on the Sunday Net, so for that I just = run the show on batteries during the Rx overs. When I get "a round Tuit" I am going to follow the very detailed instructio= ns from John in the US and feed the 706 into my recently acquired Hafler Tr= ansnova 3000 (approx 400w). Cheers John. While I will unlikely get 400W I suspect I might get 250W which is 10dB up = on my current input power and hopefully about 500mW ERP and that may be eno= ugh to hop the pond. As for 137KHz and down=85=85. The 706 will generate a very weak signal at 137 probably only around 1mW bu= t if I can get that into the Hafler then that=92s my net project, work and = weather permitting. I acquired some coils from the SK estate of the late g= reat G3ACQ and they will happily resonate my "L" onto LF. My other (better) plan is to use the 0dBm output on my Elad FDM Duo and a 1= W broadband RF amp off Ebay to give me 1W output at 137 and feed that into= the Hafler, so plenty to do. The ELAD will also go down to sub 9Khz on the 0dBm output so I may try to r= e-start my dreaming experiments and also try some of Roger G3XBM earth loop= electrode arrangements The local 472 net nr to IO92ub will be on air from about 9am local today an= d most Sundays so feel free to join in! Chris G3XIZ is usually "Net Controller" and "chief documenter". Best 73s Jim Dr. Jim Cowburn G7NKS IO92ub --_000_DB6PR1001MB13209FFB89B982A8A90CCE4BECCA0DB6PR1001MB1320_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <86CCB698C2C9154DBA7AABB65B833386@EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name=3D"PersonName" />

Hi Andy

 

Add these in and see what it comes up = with:-

 

1. Vertical antenna in open and 15m aw= ay from house and near trees.  30m top wire runs in an East-West orien= tation heading West away from vertical element, i.e. vertical element is at "east" end of= garden.   Top wire runs westwards  for 15m over roof (tile)= . Height clear of roof is about 1m and then another 15m westwards to a 10m = fibreglass telescopic pole lashed to a wooden fence panel.  There is actually a further 5m of wire hanging down the pole so top = wire is 30m with a 90' bend and then 5m hanging down, taped to west end sup= port pole.

 

I'd be curious to see what directivity= that gives as my best signals usually come from East, but that may well be= because there are more Rxs that way, though last night I did get to Iceland which is= 320' or so azimuth from my QTH.

 

The loading coil is just 130 turns of = 2mm tri-rated flex wound on a "brown" 100mm diameter plumbing &qu= ot;soil" pipe". 

 

The antenna wire connects via banana p= lug/socket at the top and then the various taps start from Turn 85 down to = Turn 120.    I think it's currently connected at turn 95 or so. The core of the coax goes strai= ght to the tap and the braid to the earthing system.   

 

I don't use any matching transformers = or overwound coupling coils to link the feeder to the loading coil, it is d= irectly connected and it seems to work okay and looks okay on the analyser.

 

Next challenge is to beat the 2000km w= all!!

 

I'll have a look at the link.

 

With best regards

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. Jim Cowburn  G7NKS  IO92ub

 <= /font>

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of F6CNI - Andy - = JN19QB
Sent: 25 September 2016 10:3= 8
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: good night = on MF WSPR @G7NKS 1933km @ 50mW erp - winter plans

 

Hello James.= =

 =

Congrats you= r results on WSPR2 MF.

 =

I just compu= ted, using the EZNEC PRO V6.0 software, your antenna with the 52 Ohms base = resistance part, an average soil in the Fraunhofer zone and 25 Watts output TX. Here the results :

 =

1. =     Base antenna Z =3D 52 - 1300 j and 900 Volts RF RMS ;

2. =     F/B ratio 1.4 dB ;

3. =     Efficiency =96 21 dB, so about 200 mW ERP ;

4. =     Maxi lobe -18 dBi at 20=B0 site, so about 400 mW EIRP ;= =

5. =     Ibase =3D 0.7 A , Itop =3D 0.5 A , Total Amperes x meters =3D = 7.2 in the vertical wire.

6. =     To get 1 W EIRP, you need about 60 Watts output TX.

 =

Note that re= sults are exactly the same if you test the very very fb, easy to use and ac= curate =AB Antenna simulator =BB computed by rik ON7YD / OR7T :

 =

Best 73.

 =

Andy.= =

 =

 

Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 9:11 AM

Subject: LF: good night on MF WSPR @G7NKS 1933km @ 50mW erp - winter plans

 <= /o:p>

Prop'n seems to be improving.  Iceland and Finland la= st night on MF, nearly 2000km on about 50mW ERP.

 

Roll on the cold dark nights!

 

Simple set up @ G7NKS

 

IC706mk2g via current meter and home = brew 7 pole LPF into coax out some 15m to a tapped loading coil into an inv= erted L (12m high on a fibreglass telescopic pole and 30m top wire across roof)

 

Earthing via a mish-mash of stakes &a= mp; bonding to oil tank feeder pipe (buried) and some steel mesh under pati= o slabs and block paved drive.

 

Checking via the RigExpert AA1000 ana= lyser shows an impedance of 52 ohm and a return loss of -25dB @ 474.2khz.&n= bsp;  For the local IO92 and Newark Sunday morning net with G3XIZ, M0JXM, G3DXZ, G4GIR occasionally= and M0FMT, we use around 473.3khz and this occassionally warrants a quick = tap up or down by half a turn.  Also when it rains like today, there's= a tweak needed sometimes as the top wire capacitance to roof changes as it becomes more electrolytic and less = air spaced!

 

PC is a Dell Studio 1749  runnin= g WSPR 2.12.

 

The IC706mk2G will run at about 25% m= ax power on 472 so about 25w but not all of that is at 472 of course, I est= imate I'm getting 50mW ERP using a very helpful spreadsheet/calc provided by Stefan.  <= /o:p>

 

On a 15% duty cycle it all remains ha= ppily cool.

 

It does have a tendency to fight with= our cheap home broadband router supplied by British Telecom, resulting in = the "Orange Light of Death" and subsequent grief from XYL and 2 teenagers as their Netflix= /Music stream/Online gaming has just fallen over!    Ferrite= toroids have been spectacularly unsuccessful in remedying this.  The = best solution has been to try to run the CAT5 cables in my office as perpendicular to the coax feed and line of roof top wire as poss= ible to minimise pick up and cross talk, but this hasn't really been that e= ffective either.

 

A bigger issue on Rx is the noise&nbs= p; pick up from both Dell (genuine kit and  not cheap copies either, w= hich is annoying!) PSUs that feed the Studio and the XPS17 which is my main office PC. On batteries, I = get about S1-3 of noise which is very good, but as soon as the PSU's are us= ed and are under "load" then this rockets up to S7-9!  If th= ey are powered on, but not driving the laptops i.e. disconnected, then they have no impact.    I'm wonderi= ng if it is the load that makes them noisier or whether the whole laptop ac= ts as an augmented antenna when they are connected to it?=

 

I've tried putting them in shielded e= arthed metal boxes (biscuit tins!) with no effect. (biscuits were nice thou= gh!).  Similarly, stacked ferrite toroids on the mains inputs and DC power out have had zero impact.=   They both have a very bright blue LED on the power cable whereas old= er units for my Dell D610/20 series did not have this "bauble" an= d were much quieter, but also were lower rated at 60W or 90W as opposed to these beasts which are around 120W to 150W, an= d run alarmingly warm at times!

 

The Rx noise doesn't seem to affect m= y WSPR reception but it does impact on me hearing G3DXZ (Chas) from Newark on the Sunday Net, so for that I just run = the show on batteries during the Rx overs.

 

When I get "a round Tuit" I= am going to follow the very detailed instructions from John in the US and feed the 706 into my recently acquired Hafler Transnova= 3000  (approx 400w).   Cheers John.

 

While I will unlikely get 400W I susp= ect I might get 250W which is 10dB up on my current input power and hopeful= ly about 500mW ERP and that may be enough to hop the pond.

 

As for 137KHz and down=85=85.

 

The 706 will generate a very weak sig= nal at 137 probably only around 1mW but if I can get that into the Hafler t= hen that=92s my net project, work and weather permitting.  I acquired some coils from the SK estat= e of the late great G3ACQ and they will happily resonate my "L" o= nto LF.

 

My other (better) plan is to use the = 0dBm output on my Elad FDM Duo and a 1W broadband RF amp off Ebay  to = give me 1W output at 137 and feed that into the Hafler, so plenty to do.

 

The ELAD will also go down to sub 9Kh= z on the 0dBm output so I may try to re-start my dreaming experiments and a= lso try some of Roger G3XBM earth loop electrode arrangements

 

The local 472 net nr to IO92ub will b= e on air from about 9am local today and most Sundays so feel free to join i= n!

 

Chris G3XIZ is usually "Net Cont= roller" and "chief documenter". 

 

Best 73s 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. Jim Cowburn  G7NKS   IO92= ub

 

 =

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