Return-Path: Received: from rly-de01.mx.aol.com (rly-de01.mail.aol.com [172.19.170.137]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILINDE043-4b3489723d91b8; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:45:13 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-de01.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDE018-4b3489723d91b8; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:44:38 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1KQ2DT-0003bm-2Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:43:23 +0100 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1KQ2DS-0003bb-0T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:43:22 +0100 Received: from smtp818.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([77.238.189.18]) by relay3.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KQ2DO-0002k0-Jq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:43:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 91024 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2008 15:43:12 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=NtXr0N2eowNMXu1WZFDfUNdFLx+Lw898Whl1M6zhLZOARTvjebkItTOlXxJCXt6q4/6I8euvRCC+C3NJnmCFAppRKGHE2PTk2w+HR67/VHzbsG2EzSNkdiPgcZGHRO0tz3uhtbn+JaSjFk/WUWn1aAUZCYUN7wcRAxJnDQgobTU= ; Received: from unknown (HELO DennisPC) (dennis.easterling@btinternet.com@86.137.115.175 with login) by smtp818.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Aug 2008 15:43:11 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: m1bO1BcVM1mOs1Z78WEAHc6P8a7mhL_tpqWhRnwKSj20caZBOgFPbbnx7WVtay_MkPyNTV5vv_ySbEk4Ykj6jwgJe_gRk5AUbMhbyc7VebN8d0aTQ3E7J9ILOlOWUaY- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "DENNIS EASTERLING" To: References: <004a01c8f19b$3d370520$a402a8c0@Inspiron> <011925433193420FAA184FA6E7F8CDA9@DennisPC> <120FCD1BCEFD4733A70BB7E4DE695E1F@AGB> <847A2BA37D8C4C88BE7899AFE777998A@DennisPC> <4FEA55415CE3426391A1472DCA8FB59D@AGB> In-Reply-To: <4FEA55415CE3426391A1472DCA8FB59D@AGB> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:43:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C8F651.2DE1B650" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C8F651.2DE1B650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Graham Thanks for the info. I have a large earth spike just outside the shack, an= d 48ft of copper wire running in Y formation under the lawn. I know the ea= rth made a difference on top band. I like the idea of a mast-top coil and=20= that it will be much further from me when operating, but will have to try it= later. I was interested about your results on 80m, because my performance= on that band has never been good. I started using a half size G5RV, and c= ould never decide whether 80m was best when working as a half size dipole or= 'T'. 40m and above was not too bad. I have decided to use MMTTY program for rtty, and after looking for all the=20= little buttons, have got it working. Am still struggling with reading mors= e, but have overcome my bad keying by writing a keying program in GW Basic (= Dont tell Mal Hi) Have Argo for slow morse on the computer but have not go= t used to it yet. I think I will have to seek help from Chris G3XIZ. The neighbours tree is down, but there is some doubt about the one next to=20= it, and so I am waiting to see what happens before raising the far mast. Me= anwhile I am running an inverted V for nearby top band work. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Dennis, I'm in a state of flux at this end , having a big move round ,,which has=20= not gone to plan still operational on hf , but all the mf kit is in boxes=20= at the moment , I can take a look , on 500 , with low power you will be bett= er sending very slow cw and checking on the grabbers , you should show at B= irmingham and later in the night at Shetland ... Shetland is a very strange=20= place as there doesn't look to be any background noise . ... apart from the= wind that occasionally removes the antenna ! Gary is also running a on lin= e 'grabber' he's about 60 miles north of Birmingham . you may shown there...= =20 Oddly , a good earth looks to do more for the signal than the Ae , any pi= pes rods ect in the ground , use individual wires and bring them all back =20= to the same earth point , its not conductance that makes the difference is g= round capacity , the more the better , wires under the top of the ae will ad= d to the return path for the current... =20 The top loading coil, 40 turns of 30 amp wire on a coke bottle , (other= s may of used a cider flagon .... they know who they are) ... and i think Ga= ry favours a centre one, made a big improvement. Anything that increases the= current in the vertical section of the system , don't bother with long low= wires , these just radiate vertically upwards.. the annoying thing is the station now works much better on top band and 8= 0 mtrs as a result of the mod's embodied for 500... could of done them 15 ye= ars ago=20 Q how are you generating fsk ? =20 Good luck=20 Graham From: DENNIS EASTERLING=20 Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:00 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Graham Thanks for your e-mail and encouraging remarks. I have made a couple of=20= test transmissions, but no comments so far. I am having to suspend ops for= the present as my neighbour is having a nearby tree felled and I have lower= ed my antenna just in case. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 1:27 AM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Dennis, Don't worry about operation on vlf, I think you find the band acts more= like top band , with a well defined service area ~60/ 70 miles and a first=20= skip round 200/250 , I can see a trace at Birmingham with 500mW to my antenn= a , only real problem is the dreaded deep fade 'qsb' whic takes the signal o= ut 30 seconds up to 1 minuet + , which causes havoc with rtty , as you have= no idea if the other station copied anything .... dont suppose you have amt= or ? =20 I doubt you will cause any interference with those power levels , I ran= 20 watts to a inverted L 40 ft x 40 ft for a long time , which radiated qu= ite well , but after adding a top loading coil found it worked a lot better=20= , with 150 watts and a new variometer tuner , still didn't record any proble= ms .. Had more problems with the pc jamming the incoming signals and a funny l= ong life bulb that radiated a well spaced spectrum across the band ! check=20= out the pages on the google uk500khz web news group for links to the grabbe= rs etc .=20 73 's=20 Graham ..=20 G0NBD=20 From: DENNIS EASTERLING=20 Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:52 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Hi Lee I have just got my NOV to operate on 500kHz, so will be dipping my toe i= nto the water from next week. I have not got any 138kHz experience and only obtained my full amateur l= icence last May. On my application for the NOV, I provided a scale diagram of my own and=20= immediate neighbour's properties, gave a brief description of the TX(home br= ew), RX(Lowe HF-225) and antenna(T) that I intend to use and an estimate of=20= my erp from the TANTENNA program on the internet (200mW). As I am using a V= FO, I use a counter to measure the frequency and also monitor transmissions=20= using the RX which has a digital readout. I also stated that I would cease= transmissions until any complaint was satisfactorily resolverd, and mention= ed two nearby amateurs also working on 500kHz whose help and advice I could=20= seek. All the above seemed to work, so good luck on your application. The mor= e the merrier. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lee Hudson=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: LF: 500KHz NoV Hi All, After reading through loads of stuff and monitoring the LF Group I'm l= eft with the decision of whether to start on 136 or 500KHz. 500KHz seems much easier to deal with from the outset, and hopefully t= he NoV period will be extended further next year. However the NoV itself is the possible stumbling block in that it appe= ars that experience on 136KHz is a big plus that Ofcom appear to be looking=20= for, My question is, would I get away with applying for a NoV without first= being active on 136KHz, or has anyone already taken this route and been suc= cessful? 73, Lee M0LMH. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1581 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 06= :56 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 17= :30 ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C8F651.2DE1B650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Graham
 
Thanks for the info.   I have a l= arge=20 earth spike just outside the shack, and 48ft of copper wire running in Y=20 formation under the lawn.   I know the earth made a difference on=20= top=20 band.   I like the idea of a mast-top coil and that it will b= e=20 much further from me when operating, but will have to try it later. &nb= sp;=20 I was interested about your results on 80m, because my performance on that b= and=20 has never been good.   I started using a half size G5RV, and could= =20 never decide whether 80m was best when working as a half size dipole or=20 'T'.  40m and above was not too bad.
 
I have decided to use MMTTY program for rtt= y, and=20 after looking for all the little buttons, have got it working.   A= m=20 still struggling with reading morse, but have overcome my bad keying by writ= ing=20 a keying program in GW Basic (Dont tell Mal Hi)   Have Argo for sl= ow=20 morse on the computer but have not got used to it yet.  I think I will=20= have=20 to seek help from Chris G3XIZ.
 
The neighbours tree is down,  but ther= e is=20 some doubt about the one next to it, and so I am waiting to see what happens= =20 before raising the far mast.  Meanwhile I am running an inverted V for=20 nearby top band work.
 
73
Dennis M0JXM
----- Original Message -----
Graham
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:43=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Dennis,
 
I'm in  a state of flux at this end=20= , having=20 a big move round ,,which has not gone to  plan  still operationa= l on=20 hf , but all the mf kit is in boxes at the moment , I can take a look , on= 500=20 , with low power you will be better sending very  slow cw and checkin= g on=20 the grabbers , you should show at Birmingham and later in the night a= t=20 Shetland ... Shetland is a very strange place as there doesn't look to&nbs= p;=20 be any background noise . ... apart from the wind that occasionally=20 removes the antenna ! Gary is also  running a on line 'grabber' he's=20 about 60 miles north of Birmingham . you may shown there...
 
Oddly , a good earth looks to  do mo= re for=20 the signal than the Ae , any pipes rods  ect in the ground , use=20 individual wires and bring them all back  to the same earth point , i= ts=20 not conductance that makes the difference is ground capacity , the more th= e=20 better , wires under the top of the ae will add  to  the return=20= path=20 for the current...  
 
 The top loading coil, 40  turn= s of 30=20 amp wire  on a coke bottle , (others may of used a cider flagon=20= ....=20 they know who they are) ... and i think Gary favours a centre one, ma= de a=20 big improvement. Anything that increase= s the=20 current in the vertical section of the system , don't  bother with lo= ng=20 low wires , these just radiate vertically upwards..
the annoying thing is  the stat= ion now=20 works much better on top band and 80 mtrs as a result of the mod's embodie= d=20 for 500... could of done them 15 years ago
 
Q how are you generating fsk ?=20  
 
Good luck
 
Graham
 
 
 
 

Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Graham
 
Thanks for your e-mail and encouraging=20 remarks.   I have made a couple of test transmissions, but no=20 comments so far.   I am having to suspend ops for the present as= my=20 neighbour is having a nearby tree felled and I have lowered my antenna jus= t in=20 case.
 
73 Dennis M0JXM
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Graham
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 1:2= 7=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Dennis,
 
Don't worry about  operation on vl= f, I=20 think you find the band acts more like top band , with a well defined=20 service area ~60/ 70 miles and a first skip round 200/250 , I can see a=20 trace at Birmingham with 500mW to my antenna , only real problem is the=20 dreaded deep fade 'qsb' whic takes the signal out 30 seconds up to = 1=20 minuet + , which causes havoc with rtty , as you have no idea if the oth= er=20 station copied anything .... dont suppose you have amtor ?=20  
 
I doubt you will cause any interference= =20 with  those power levels , I ran 20 watts to a inverted L = ; 40=20 ft x 40 ft for a long time , which radiated quite well , but after addin= g a=20 top loading coil found it worked a lot better , with 150 watts and a new= =20 variometer tuner , still didn't record any problems ..
 
Had more problems with the pc jamming t= he=20 incoming signals and a funny long life bulb that radiated a well spaced=20 spectrum across the band  ! check out the pages on the google = =20 uk500khz web news group for links to the grabbers etc .
 
73 's
 
Graham ..
 
G0NBD
 
 
 

Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Hi Lee
 
I have just got my NOV to operate on 50= 0kHz, so=20 will be dipping my toe into the water from next week.
 
I have not got any 138kHz experience an= d only=20 obtained my full amateur licence last May.
On my application for the NOV, I provid= ed a=20 scale diagram of my own and immediate neighbour's properties, gave=20= a=20 brief description of the TX(home brew), RX(Lowe HF-225) and antenna(T)=20 that I intend to use and an estimate of my erp from the TANTENNA=20 program on the internet (200mW).  As I am using a VFO, I use a coun= ter=20 to measure the frequency and also monitor transmissions using the RX whi= ch=20 has a digital readout.   I also stated that I would cease=20 transmissions until any complaint was satisfactorily resolverd, and=20 mentioned two nearby amateurs also working on 500kHz whose help and advi= ce I=20 could seek.
 
All the above seemed to work, so good l= uck on=20 your application.  The more the merrier.
 
73 Dennis M0JXM
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lee Hudson
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:= 50=20 PM
Subject: LF: 500KHz NoV

Hi All,

 

After reading through lo= ads of=20 stuff and monitoring the LF Group I=92m left with the decision of whet= her to=20 start on 136 or 500KHz.

 

500KHz seems much easier= to=20 deal with from the outset, and hopefully the NoV period will be extend= ed=20 further next year.

However the NoV itself i= s the=20 possible stumbling block in that it appears that experience on 136KHz=20= is a=20 big plus that Ofcom appear to be looking for,

 

My question is, would I=20= get=20 away with applying for a NoV without first being active on 136KHz, or=20= has=20 anyone already taken this route and been successful?

 

73,

Lee M0LMH.=

 

= 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1581 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 06=
:56

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 17=
:30
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