Return-Path: Received: from rly-md03.mx.aol.com (rly-md03.mail.aol.com [172.20.29.141]) by air-md09.mail.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMD091-8f24957acd142; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:44:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-md03.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMD032-8f24957acd142; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:44:03 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LGyjv-0001lN-OB for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:43:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LGyjv-0001lE-4c for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:43:43 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.151] helo=smtp6.freeserve.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LGyjt-00020U-Le for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:43:43 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3506.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id BA8CC7000085 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:43:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.43.175]) by mwinf3506.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 157CA7000082 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:43:31 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20081228164331881.157CA7000082@mwinf3506.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <005a01c968ff$2a99ee10$6401a8c0@asus> <2AE02D153B264F6D83CE8993AEA5F44E@AGB> <008501c96908$4f961320$6401a8c0@asus> In-Reply-To: <008501c96908$4f961320$6401a8c0@asus> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:43:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.5027.908 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.5027.908 X-Karma: -140: lashback.ubl=-140.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 500KHz QSB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0160_01C9690B.64477090" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0160_01C9690B.64477090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary, Thats about it , the refraction is from a 'media' that's not stable so you=20= will have differing propagation on adjacent frequency's =20 One of the reasons these wide band data systems constantly out perform 'simp= le cw' over long paths , using a sort of frequency diversity G ..=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 4:21 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: 500KHz QSB Hi Rik & Graham, =20 Thanks for the replies. =20 All understood now, the screen shot certainly shows it up. =20 I didn't relate multi path fading to what I was seeing on the display as I a= m normally used to seeing/hearing single narrow signals fading differently=20= from different sources. So I hope I am correct in saying that with the three= distinct signals from the NDB the additive & subtractive properties of each= multi path signal even though closely related in frequency will react so no= ticeably differently at the receiver even from the same source. =20 I missed Grahams report on the UK500KHZ group. =20 73 =20 Gary - G4WGT. =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of Graham Sent: 28 December 2008 15:30 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 500KHz QSB =20 Gary, =20 I assume its selective fading , you can see it at 100 Hz separation at > =20 > http://groups.google.com/group/uk500khz/web/propagation =20 add the shot with a few pointers ?=20 =20 G ..=20 =20 Nb .. check out the 500 band in those day's , no mal-adjusted cw signals=20 right in the middle !=20 =20 =20 =20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:15 PM To: LF -RSGB LF Group=20 Subject: LF: 500KHz QSB =20 Hi LF, =20 Just made an interesting observation regarding QSB at 508KHz. =20 For my own benefit I have started running a slow SpecLab showing 500 to 510K= Hz & capturing for evaluation. =20 Occasionally the NDB "Z" shows up. The strange thing is that even though the= carrier on 508KHz & the two ID offsets at 509 & 507KHz are relatively close= they each display at different depth of fading or an out of phase fade patt= ern. =20 I am unsure why this should be, any comments please, see capture at link :- =20 http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/ZNDB.jpg =20 73, =20 Gary - G4WGT - IO83QP. =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date: 12/27/2008=20= 20:49 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date: 12/27/2008=20= 20:49 ------=_NextPart_000_0160_01C9690B.64477090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gary,
 
Thats about it , the refraction is from a '= media'=20 that's not stable so  you will have differing propagation on adjacent=20 frequency's  
 
One of the reasons these wide band data sys= tems=20 constantly out perform 'simple cw' over long paths , using a sort of frequen= cy=20 diversity
 
G ..
 

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: RE: LF: 500KHz QSB

H= i=20 Rik & Graham,

<= o:p> 

T= hanks=20 for the replies.

<= o:p> 

A= ll=20 understood now, the screen shot certainly shows it=20 up.

<= o:p> 

I= =20 didn=92t relate multi path fading to what I was seeing on the display as I a= m=20 normally used to seeing/hearing single narrow signals  fading different= ly=20 from different sources. So I hope I am correct in saying that with the three= =20 distinct signals from the NDB the additive & subtractive properties of e= ach=20 multi path signal even though closely related in frequency will react so=20 noticeably differently at the receiver even from the same=20 source.

<= o:p> 

I= =20 missed Grahams report on the UK500KHZ group.

<= o:p> 

7= 3

<= o:p> 

G= ary=20 =96 G4WGT.

<= o:p> 

From: owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham
Sent: 28 Decem= ber 2008 15:30
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
<= B>Subject: Re: LF: 500KHz=20 QSB

 

Ga= ry,

 

I assume its selective fading , you=20 can see it at 100 Hz separation at >

 

 

add the shot with a few pointers ?=20

 

G ..=20

 

Nb ..  check out the 500 band=20 in those day's , no mal-adjusted cw signals

right in the middle !=20

 

 

 

From: Gary - G4WGT=20

Sent: Sunday,=20 December 28, 2008 3:15 PM

Subject: LF:=20 500KHz QSB

 

Hi=20 LF,

 

Just made an=20 interesting observation regarding QSB at=20 508KHz.

 

For my own=20 benefit I have started running a slow SpecLab showing 500 to 510KHz &=20 capturing for evaluation.

 

Occasionally the=20 NDB =93Z=94 shows up. The strange thing is that even though the carrier on 5= 08KHz=20 & the two ID offsets at 509 & 507KHz are relatively close they each=20 display at different depth of fading or an out of phase fade=20 pattern.

 

I am unsure why=20 this should be, any comments please, see capture at link=20 :-

 

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/= wgtaylor/ZNDB.jpg

 

73,=

 

Gary - G4WGT -=20 IO83QP.

 


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked= =20 by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/= 1866=20 - Release Date: 12/27/2008 20:49


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 -=20 Release Date: 12/27/2008 20:49
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